[Politics] Brexit

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Sigh .... One last time

1. A United Ireland is, as you point out, not going to happen.
2. A good deal including no border in Ireland but without a customs union. This is the 'ideal solution' that you were sold at the referendum, but has proven to be impossible to negotiate, deliver or even define. (Note: I have avoided the word 'fantasy').
3. No deal. This is possible but will take 10s of Billions of pounds in infrastructure costs, will take several years to implement and will entail putting a Border and customs between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Maybe if we had begun building customs posts, lorry parks, IT infrastructure, designing and building systems and recruiting and training staff straight after the referendum maybe we could be operationally ready by now, 3 years later (completely ignoring any economic or political impact). Personally, I think it would have taken longer than 3 years, but who knows ?
4. May's deal. (Don't forget, this doesn't do away with the seemingly unsolvable border issue, it simply defaults to Customs Union and renames it 'the backstop'). This doesn't seem to satisfy the Leave voters according to the most vocal Brexit supporters on here.

Of course a country can leave the EU.

But unless you can suggest another alternative, you have two options, neither of which Brexit supporters seem to be able to agree on, and each time I point this out to you, you simply become abusive

I think that what this shows is that even one of the more considered Brexiteers on the thread can find no easy (or even viable) answers. I don't necessarily blame him: it's well-nigh impossible to square this circle.

Simply: if we want a negotiated Brexit (i.e one with a deal) then we have to respect the views of the party with which we are negotiating. Especially as that party has more leverage than we do.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

, and each time I point this out to you, you simply become abusive

Really ? Care to quote any post I've been abusive BECAUSE of the points you mention ? I become abusive when we get the repetitive same question ( from you ), which has been answered numerous times, but you choose to ignore the answers. I also get abusive when we get posters like Lever who come across as complete arrogant w@nkers and post comments trying to put down someone else's viewpoint. By all means argue the point but don't post like a w@anker. I'm not surprised I get abusive having being called a racist, a fool, an idiot, a thicko, a xenophobe, a little Englander etc etc etc. Basically anyone that has used those terms can fvck off - their view is worth rat shit.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Really ? Care to quote any post I've been abusive BECAUSE of the points you mention ? I become abusive when we get the repetitive same question ( from you ), which has been answered numerous times, but you choose to ignore the answers. I also get abusive when we get posters like Lever who come across as complete arrogant w@nkers and post comments trying to put down someone else's viewpoint. By all means argue the point but don't post like a w@anker. I'm not surprised I get abusive having being called a racist, a fool, an idiot, a thicko, a xenophobe, a little Englander etc etc etc. Basically anyone that has used those terms can fvck off - their view is worth rat shit.

Well that was a totally unexpected reply. I didn't expect a load of abuse, definitely not

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Well that was a totally unexpected reply. I didn't expect a load of abuse, definitely not

So you can't provide any quotes as requested ? Good, we're agreed then.

 

[Two Professors]

The GFA is itself a bi-lateral arrangement between two nations. The WTO is a framework for multi-national trade and - in simple terms - any such bi-lateral arrangement would fall foul of the 'most favoured nation' precept of the WTO. So it wouldn't - couldn't - work. I believe that the former head of the WTO - Pascal Lamy - has stated this very clearly.
We - the UK - might (or might not) be able to extricate ourselves form the EU on the basis of our political preferences, but we can't re-draw the rule-book of international trade.
This position, that we can somehow flout rules, is a bit of a characteristic of the more gung-ho Brexiteer vision. I'm not sure we are presenting ourselves as particularly credible trading partners in a post-Brexit environment (Boris as PM?).

This issue - together with the related super-optimism about the trade deals we can set up outside of the EU - has always been one of the weaker selling points of Brexit. TBH, no-one really thought it through.

Oh dear,this is really becoming tiresome.We already trade with some countries under WTO rules,and the GFA is perfectly ok now.If we trade with other countries under WTO and keep the border as it is on our side,the only side that can break the GFA is the Republic,under orders from Brussels.The EU already turn a blind eye to other such arrangements,the most recent being the one between Italy and the Italian speaking cantonment in Switzerland,so given good will,no problem.

 

[Two Professors]

Reduced to more hate comments 2p?
No answer to the question 'are you a racist?'
By making no response, I think you have given us all a strong hint.
Your feeble little slights are noted.

Why don't you just own up to being a troll?It won't matter for much longer,anyway.Hopefully Boris can get us out in June,so you can go back to learning English,or Chinese.

 

[nicko31]

Sigh .... One last time

1. A United Ireland is, as you point out, not going to happen.
2. A good deal including no border in Ireland but without a customs union. This is the 'ideal solution' that you were sold at the referendum, but has proven to be impossible to negotiate, deliver or even define. (Note: I have avoided the word 'fantasy').
3. No deal. This is possible but will take 10s of Billions of pounds in infrastructure costs, will take several years to implement and will entail putting a Border and customs between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Maybe if we had begun building customs posts, lorry parks, IT infrastructure, designing and building systems and recruiting and training staff straight after the referendum maybe we could be operationally ready by now, 3 years later (completely ignoring any economic or political impact). Personally, I think it would have taken longer than 3 years, but who knows ?
4. May's deal. (Don't forget, this doesn't do away with the seemingly unsolvable border issue, it simply defaults to Customs Union and renames it 'the backstop'). This doesn't seem to satisfy the Leave voters according to the most vocal Brexit supporters on here.

Of course a country can leave the EU.

But unless you can suggest another alternative, you have two options, neither of which Brexit supporters seem to be able to agree on, and each time I point this out to you, you simply become abusive

I'm afraid there is a significant percent of the population that will not be able to understand this, or just don't want to face facts

This is why the Brexit party is polling 30% + right now

Sorry, if some are offended by that, but its reality

 

[Lever]

Really ? Care to quote any post I've been abusive BECAUSE of the points you mention ? I become abusive when we get the repetitive same question ( from you ), which has been answered numerous times, but you choose to ignore the answers. I also get abusive when we get posters like Lever who come across as complete arrogant w@nkers and post comments trying to put down someone else's viewpoint. By all means argue the point but don't post like a w@anker. I'm not surprised I get abusive having being called a racist, a fool, an idiot, a thicko, a xenophobe, a little Englander etc etc etc. Basically anyone that has used those terms can fvck off - their view is worth rat shit.

I cannot help it if your political views and those of your fellow Leavers don't stand up to critical scrutiny Westdene. It just means those arguments are not robust enough to be defended coherently.
You seem to become very abusive over the style of critical posts, not the substance.

Can you explain what you mean by posting like a w@nker or not? Before it was all about not answering other people's points.... so what exactly are your points Westdene?

 

[Lever]

Why don't you just own up to being a troll?It won't matter for much longer,anyway.Hopefully Boris can get us out in June,so you can go back to learning English,or Chinese.

Desperate stuff now 2p..... You write pure vulgarian. Try and make out a positive case for the politics of hate you celebrate. You are obviously an experienced googler, so use that to help you.

 

[Mtoto]

Sigh ..... as peviously pointed out you're making it a binary choice - no deal or customs union. You're also suggesting I haven't already suggested my peferred option.

So just one last time, just for you, here's my choices in order of preference :

1. A united Ireland ( solves the border issue ) but is never going to happen
2. A good deal including no border in Ireland but without a customs union
3. No Deal
4. May's deal

It really is uttery unbelievable that a country can't leave a political union.

1. No, it isn't. Not on our terms, anyway.
2. Royally taking the p*ss, and therefore a fantasy
3. Insane
4. Vassalage

It's entirely possible to leave a political union, but not while taking the p*ss, because the rest of them won't let you.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I am afraid you have been at that level for some months now, which is a shame as you genuinely you never used to be

he was. which is why i blocked him. apols for the lower case. typing while eating biltong. anyway, he isn't worth it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I am not passing judgment on you or your grammatical skills Mouldy Boots; that would be totally out of order.

I asked you for clarification, that's all. I am more focused on what I consider to be weak arguments like as a nation we just have to 'believe in Britain' for all to be okay. It's a simplistic soundbite signifying nothing... and of course the equally facile follow up is that anyone who scrutinises, criticises or analyses this slogan is being unpatriotic and putting this great country of ours down.

I try to distinguish between people and opinions. I don't consider anyone on here to be a 'tosspot' - but I would certainly claim that there are some 'tosspot' political views expressed on this thread.

You're a special needs teacher, aren't you?

 

[Dick Head]

Sigh .... One last time

1. A United Ireland is, as you point out, not going to happen.
2. A good deal including no border in Ireland but without a customs union. This is the 'ideal solution' that you were sold at the referendum, but has proven to be impossible to negotiate, deliver or even define. (Note: I have avoided the word 'fantasy').
3. No deal. This is possible but will take 10s of Billions of pounds in infrastructure costs, will take several years to implement and will entail putting a Border and customs between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Maybe if we had begun building customs posts, lorry parks, IT infrastructure, designing and building systems and recruiting and training staff straight after the referendum maybe we could be operationally ready by now, 3 years later (completely ignoring any economic or political impact). Personally, I think it would have taken longer than 3 years, but who knows ?
4. May's deal. (Don't forget, this doesn't do away with the seemingly unsolvable border issue, it simply defaults to Customs Union and renames it 'the backstop'). This doesn't seem to satisfy the Leave voters according to the most vocal Brexit supporters on here.

Of course a country can leave the EU.

But unless you can suggest another alternative, you have two options, neither of which Brexit supporters seem to be able to agree on, and each time I point this out to you, you simply become abusive

Your view is very dangerous. You have to believe more. This is a fantastic opportunity for us. You have to believe more. You have to believe more. You have to believe more.

 

[daveinplzen]

Oh dear,this is really becoming tiresome.We already trade with some countries under WTO rules,and the GFA is perfectly ok now.If we trade with other countries under WTO and keep the border as it is on our side,the only side that can break the GFA is the Republic,under orders from Brussels.The EU already turn a blind eye to other such arrangements,the most recent being the one between Italy and the Italian speaking cantonment in Switzerland,so given good will,no problem.

We don't trade with any WTO countries. The EU might do, but not the UK. As you know.

 

[daveinplzen]

I feel blessed to have a British passport alongside a permanent residency in the EU. It won't affect my life. My mother, daughter and sister, and family will potentially suffer. I asked @rivet to talk me through how a no deal Brexit would benefit the UK. The flounce was spectacular, and what I have come to expect from leavers, and their emotions.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Your view is very dangerous. You have to believe more. This is a fantastic opportunity for us. You have to believe more. You have to believe more. You have to believe more.

Do you actually own, or run a business, which trades internationally? I am willing to bet not. Because if you did, you’d understand there is no “more” than the world’s biggest trading block across the channel.

 

[Klaas]

Do you actually own, or run a business, which trades internationally? I am willing to bet not. Because if you did, you’d understand there is no “more” than the world’s biggest trading block across the channel.

I think Dick Head was being a touch sarcastic, was he not?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Your view is very dangerous. You have to believe more. This is a fantastic opportunity for us. You have to believe more. You have to believe more. You have to believe more.

Indeed.

The classic "Tinkerbell Theory".

https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1074634063322013696?s=19

 

[WATFORD zero]

Really ? Care to quote any post I've been abusive BECAUSE of the points you mention ? I become abusive when we get the repetitive same question ( from you ), which has been answered numerous times, but you choose to ignore the answers. I also get abusive when we get posters like Lever who come across as complete arrogant w@nkers and post comments trying to put down someone else's viewpoint. By all means argue the point but don't post like a w@anker. I'm not surprised I get abusive having being called a racist, a fool, an idiot, a thicko, a xenophobe, a little Englander etc etc etc. Basically anyone that has used those terms can fvck off - their view is worth rat shit.

And this sums up exactly where we are with Brexit.

One of the most lucid Brexit supporters, when faced with the now patently obvious options of a Hard Border or a Customs Union, cannot add anything to the discussion so reverts to a string of abuse.

Maybe a critique of why the same repetitive binary question is wrong ? Maybe a brief outline of how an alternative solution would work ?

Your 2 solutions to date - A united Ireland that you say won't happen
A negotiated solution without a Hard Border or Customs Union which you can't define

So an impossibility or a fantasy - other than that Nothing, Zilch, Nada

Just strings of abuse. You have now managed to put yourself into that same group as Two profs, Ppf who are incapable of adding anything to the discussion.

The reason you and the rest of your little gang are getting so angry and abusive is nothing to do with any abuse you have received. I'm willing to bet that the terms 'racist, a fool, an idiot, a thicko, a xenophobe, a little Englander etc etc etc' have been quoted far more frequently by Leavers than Remainers.

It's because you have managed to box yourself completely into a corner and have finally realised there is no way out

Now I wonder what sort of response I will get

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And this sums up exactly where we are with Brexit.

One of the most lucid Brexit supporters, when faced with the now patently obvious options of a Hard Border or a Customs Union, cannot add anything to the discussion so reverts to a string of abuse.

Maybe a critique of why the same repetitive binary question is wrong ? Maybe a brief outline of how an alternative solution would work ?

Your 2 solutions to date - A united Ireland that you say won't happen
A negotiated solution without a Hard Border or Customs Union which you can't define

So an impossibility or a fantasy - other than that Nothing, Zilch, Nada

Just strings of abuse. You have now managed to put yourself into that same group as Two profs, Ppf who are incapable of adding anything to the discussion.

The reason you and the rest of your little gang are getting so angry and abusive is nothing to do with any abuse you have received. I'm willing to bet that the terms 'racist, a fool, an idiot, a thicko, a xenophobe, a little Englander etc etc etc' have been quoted far more frequently by Leavers than Remainers.

It's because you have managed to box yourself completely into a corner and have finally realised there is no way out

Now I wonder what sort of response I will get

And as usual you avoid answering a question .... I'll give you a clue, when a sentence ends with ? it means it's a question and you could deem to answer.