[Politics] Brexit

[CHAPPERS]

I think Steve Baker is right about something today, in that a softer Brexit splits the Tories in two. Oh well.

 

[Baldseagull]

One point of regular order, the evidence from the referendum shows that Tory Toffs, along with their Labour/ Lib Dem Toff peers, were the one social group that overwhelmingly voted for remain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ses-were-only-group-to-vote-to-stay-in-the-e/

Remaining in the EU, continues to be the default position for the wealthy, which, as I’m sure we would BOTH agree includes Tory Toffs. Tory Toffs though doesn’t tell the story does it, this group would include Tory business leaders (as represented by the likes of the IOD and CBI), Tory landlords and landowners (like Hesaltine and Lord Wellington, of moat fame, who as landowners recieve monies via the EU CAP).

In other words Tory Toffs (and Labour/Lib Dem Toffs) are the rich and powerful.........this is the group that took us in to the Common market, they remain the group that with all their power, money and influence want us to overwhelmingly stay.

I know I’m on the opposite side of the debate from the Rothschilds and Goldman Sachs.........you know Banking Toffs.

You may well be right about the motives of some, and I am not usually swayed by the company my opinion has, but if remaining in the EU can have support from left, right and centre, whilst leaving seems to come from further left or further right thinking, I am reassured that remaining is more likely to be the right choice.

 

[btnbelle]

Ok.

Although of the people I know who voted leave (quite a lot, I'm not in a bubble in Sheffield) NONE want no deal apart from the really, really stupid ones or the pensioners who it wouldn't affect in the long (or short) run anyway.

And I don't mean (really really) stupid because of how they voted. I mean mouth breathing morons who have no idea about anything and get their politics from The Sun and Jeremy Kyle.

Ahhhh, there we have it.....

Project fear from the bias in the media making people think no deal is a terrible option. A full and rational debate giving people information about how it may be our best option available, would change peoples minds.

I am not advocating no deal is my first choice. I would like a Canada +++ style deal. A managed deal that allows us to trade with the EU has benefits for both sides.

I think we will end up with no deal because nothing else put forward in parliament is likely to get a majority vote. It is unthinkable for democracy to not leave the EU!

 

[Baldseagull]

I am seriously impressed with your skills in judging actions and thoughts of people you don't even know.

Might be money in that.

Which issues does it solve for you?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This isn’t about what you want to happen. It’s what you think will happen.

For some people this is the same thing. It's called narcissistic personality disorder

 

[LamieRobertson]

If only they put this yes or no business on the original ballot paper..oh hang on

 

[fanseagull]

This......
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-is-the-certain-route-to-a-divided-britain/ar-BBS3DHZ

 

[maltaseagull]

I wonder if the Great British public will actually get to the point where they're so sick of pontificating that they'll accept whatever happens, just as long as something happens....

From Malta that is certainly the case.
Someone DO something please!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Try to reach a cross-party consensus? What a good idea - and only two and a half years too late.

 

[¡Cereal Killer!]

As mentioned in another thread, I think a 2nd referendum is the way to go.
When people voted the first time around, people didn't know exactly what Brexit will entail.
Brexit day is little over 2 months away and the government is in a shambles and with a clearer picture of what Brexit means, the people should be allowed to decide whether it is what they still want.

 

[Baldseagull]

Heaven forbid that any leavers actually considered the pros and cons of EU membership and decided that it was an ineffective, corrupt organisation which was interested in impoverishing it's poorer members in an ideological race to become a country.

The EU has been fantastic for the poor hasn't it? Ask the Italians, Greeks, Spanish etc. But they don't matter, they aren't northern Europeans and have darker skin don't they?

If you considered the pros and cons and came up with that assessment of the EU, I don't think you have given it fair mind.

You think Brexit is going to help? You think maybe the collapse of the EU is going to help? Bailing out on Italy, Greece and Spain is what many leavers tell me they want out for, to avoid being asked to help in any way, either financially or with easing the migrant issues.

 

[Giraffe]

Yes.

 

[LamieRobertson]

As mentioned in another thread, I think a 2nd referendum is the way to go.
When people voted the first time around, people didn't know exactly what Brexit will entail.
Brexit day is little over 2 months away and the government is in a shambles and with a clearer picture of what Brexit means, the people should be allowed to decide whether it is what they still want.

Be interested to know how many people on NSC have changed their mind ..maybe a thread with a poll

 

[Grombleton]

I wonder if the Great British public will actually get to the point where they're so sick of pontificating that they'll accept whatever happens, just as long as something happens....

This has been me for some time now.

Voted remain, expect us to leave...but i honestly couldn't care less anymore which way we go as long as we sort something out.

 

[AK74]

Try to reach a cross-party consensus? What a good idea - and only two and a half years too late.

I agree, but perhaps this is a case of better late than never?

 

[Withdean11]

Voted leave but can't see us leaving. TM and main opposition determined to keep us in.

 

[Hamilton]

I don't want us to, but yes, I do.

 

[Baldseagull]

I feel that Brexit is now affecting my mental health. I seem to have lost any happiness that I had and instead spend much time feeling sad.
I realise the answer is to avoid the various news sharing outlets but find myself following it intently.
It's sad how it has caused so many of my friends and peers to be falling out with each other.

I am sorry to hear that, it is ok to disagree with your pals and even get heated about it at times, just remember that they are your friends because they have qualities you respect, even if their politics isn't one of them, and that there has been a lot of money spent and carefully crafted messages directed at us all, and they would not do it if it did not work.

 

[Giraffe]

This talk of extending the deadline is total nonsense. I work in business negotiation and every deal you do there comes to a point where party or the other wants to extend the period of negotiation. Until one party says no there is no focus. Only at that point do you really know what you can get out of the other side. We need to take this to wire, last week, last night before the 29th March if necessary. Extending it won't help, you will always work up to the buffer and then a deal will happen. In the meantime we work our butts off to prepare for no deal and if that happens for a few months so what, if we show we are coping with no deal we will have strengthened our position incredibly and then the EU will be much more on the back foot. Like others I am in no way scared by a no deal because it will inevitably lead to a better deal being offered eventually. We shouldn't worry about any short pain because it will be to achieve long term gain.

 

[father_and_son]

They don't know how without damaging the country.

Then step aside and let someone else, better qualified, better able, better equipped do it.

This problem I personally have with this issue in particular and politics in general is the arrogance of our politicians.

Whatever the rights or wrongs of leaving the EU, the decision was made (by the people because the politicians didn't have the guts) and the role of the politicians is to negotiate the best settlement. If they lack the negotiating skills then they should admit it and step aside, if they lack the understanding of what people want then they should consult with their constituents, if they lack the ability to get behind the deal they have struck then they f**ked up the first two parts. Whichever way they personally believe we should have voted is absolutely and completely immaterial. They were voted to represent, if they cannot, with all conscience, represent the people's wishes because of their own view point then they should have stepped aside.


Ultimately, the referendum was a wake up call to politicians that they were not representing the people properly. They have, IMHO, f**ked up the opportunity to prove they can represent us. A General Election should be called immediately but with one vital caveat... If you have EVER held a seat in parliament you cannot stand at this election. You weren't good enough. Time to let someone else have a go.