[Politics] Brexit

[The Rivet]

Strong words, but you may have read too much into the post you reply to. The poster surely used the word 'disenfranchised' to describe people who feel they are not being listened to. A referendum gave them an opportunity to register their objection to being ignored or bypassed; a chance to say No to the status quo. For many of these people, so many of them deserving, the fact that the referendum was about the European Union was not especially important.

Patronising at the very least. You attribute false reasons and thoughts onto many people. Are you a mind reader or a chump?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

My dad's mrs voted leave because she is racist. It is that simple. She said "at the school near me the majority of kids speak Urdu and that can't be right so I am voting to leave" I asked what part of the eu the Urdu speakers were from and she said "who cares they are all the same"

Anyone who thinks that it an isolated example of racism in the 70+ generation has nothing to do with the 70+ generation.

Someone I know voted leave because many of his work mates could barely speak English, they hated blacks (polite term), Muslims and even thought the UK having an open border policy for mass immigration was barking mad.

Anyone who thinks this imported example of prejudice and racism has nothing to do with mass Eastern European immigratiom has no experience of mass Eastern European immigration.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Patronising at the very least. You attribute false reasons and thoughts onto many people. Are you a mind reader or a chump?

How do you know they are false reasons? Are you a mind reader or a chump?

(I am sure, like me, you will have read many articles about the shared reasons for the rise of populism on either side of the Atlantic and elsewhere. I've even got a well-reviewed book on the subject.)

 

[The Rivet]

How do you know they are false reasons? Are you a mind reader or a chump?

(I am sure, like me, you will have read many articles about the shared reasons for the rise of populism on either side of the Atlantic and elsewhere. I've even got a well-reviewed book on the subject.)

Oh how delightful!

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Someone I know voted leave because many of his work mates could barely speak English, they hated blacks (polite term), Muslims and even thought the UK having an open border policy for mass immigration was barking mad.

Anyone who thinks this imported example of prejudice and racism has nothing to do with mass Eastern European immigratiom has no experience of mass Eastern European immigration.

Great stuff. My wife's niece, a lovely lass living in London, voted Leave because of all the Russians buying houses in the capital. She's not silly, she's just not very interested in politics.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Oh how delightful!

Sorry?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Great stuff. My wife's niece, a lovely lass living in London, voted Leave because of all the Russians buying houses in the capital. She's not silly, she's just not very interested in politics.

Thanks for that, fortunately, some people still find the term Ni***r reprehensible even if spoken in a foreign accent.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

This map shows the most racist countries in Europe

More the merrier.. keep em coming (0.1 on GDP etc)

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/03/this-...ries-in-europe-and-how-britain-ranks-6612608/

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The thinker of that thought is a first class dumbkoff!

As an aside, its Dummkopf and not dumbkoff.

 

[Berty23]

You are condescending at the very least. The highlighted segment shows me everything I need to know about your personality. The thinker of that thought is a first class dumbkoff!

Serious question. Do you think everyone who voted had considered all of the relevant information from both sides of the argument? If not then what part of my statement is wrong?

Re the second part - people are still saying "let's just leave now" which again shows that they have absolutely no understanding of how complicated this is. again which part of my statement is incorrect?

The debate last summer was purposefully kept at a high level with some key themes to hook leavers e.g. The vote winning (according to Cummings not me) 350 million. Every time someone pointed out a difficulty it was dismissed as project fear.

It leaves me wondering how bad the situation in 2022 would need to be for people to admit they were wrong. So in a purely hypothetical world where Brexit turns out not to be a panacea what would need to happen? I suspect people won't be able to answer this because even if we ended up with trade plummeting, unemployment soaring and rioting on the streets that people would blame the EU for not giving us a better deal. Obviously you will shout project fear but this is a serious question. How bad would things need to get?

 

[cunning fergus]

Ah right. So that bit of written propaganda was true? I could really do with a list of what was and wasn't.

Whether or not it was propaganda is moot. The leaflet however was very clear that leaving the EU would be costly and therefore a vote to leave would make the country poorer, (I seem to recall this point was conveyed with anestimated figure of £4,500 for each family).

On that basis it must then be clear that the people that voted to leave the EU fully understood this point. They may have dismissed the point as "propaganda" but the financial implications of a vote to leave the EU really could not have been clearer.

Those who say that leavers didn't vote to make the country poorer need to remember this point.

 

[cunning fergus]

You really are an obnoxious person. Do you have Parents of age or Grandparents? The 'disenfranchised' by definition would invariably mean the unrepresented or at street level, 'lost out'. That also by definition encompasses many poor people. Should those people be without a voice? As for the EU being a convenient scapegoat? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

It was the older generation that we have to thank for taking us into the EEC, therefore their judgement over the quid pro quo is all the more relevant in the post Brexit debate. They knew what membership of the EEC was going to provide, they lived through it, and then when asked again to re-affirm their original judgment they roundly rejected it.

The young who do not possess their elders experience would do well to remember this........but the they are young and dumb........it has always been thus.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It was the older generation that we have to thank for taking us into the EEC, therefore their judgement over the quid pro quo is all the more relevant in the post Brexit debate. They knew what membership of the EEC was going to provide, they lived through it, and then when asked again to re-affirm their original judgment they roundly rejected it.

The young who do not possess their elders experience would do well to remember this........but the they are young and dumb........it has always been thus.

The other day you showed your contempt for the working class. Today it's the young. You're such a lovely person.

 

[cunning fergus]

The other day you showed your contempt for the working class. Today it's the young. You're such a lovely person.

The other day you taught me a vital lesson in the articulation of the English language, for which I wrongly sought to attribute to my working class providence. For those crimes I should be condemned eternally, I completely accept this dynamic and I will continue to wear both hair shirts openly and without shame.

You are a veritable leviathan on this football fan message board, your wisdom and sage input is for all of us to see. To be described as a lovely person in the wake of my crimes this week is evidence of your solomnesque elan. What a guy you are.

Dankeshoern.

 

[cunning fergus]

The other day you showed your contempt for the working class. Today it's the young. You're such a lovely person.

Back to the point though you rascal, the older generation (when young and dumb) took the UK into the EEC despite the warning of their elders (e.g. Hugh Gaskill). However after maturing they had a chance to correct (or re-affirm) this error of their youth.

As a generation they overwhelmingly south to correct it, and for that we should be grateful for their wisdom. It is why in most cultures the old are revered.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The other day you taught me a vital lesson in the articulation of the English language, for which I wrongly sought to attribute to my working class providence. For those crimes I should be condemned eternally, I completely accept this dynamic and I will continue to wear both hair shirts openly and without shame.

You are a veritable leviathan on this football fan message board, your wisdom and sage input is for all of us to see. To be described as a lovely person in the wake of my crimes this week is evidence of your solomnesque elan. What a guy you are.

Dankeshoern.

Once I'm confident with your grasp of English we can move onto your German

Danke schön

 

[Berty23]

Someone I know voted leave because many of his work mates could barely speak English, they hated blacks (polite term), Muslims and even thought the UK having an open border policy for mass immigration was barking mad.

Anyone who thinks this imported example of prejudice and racism has nothing to do with mass Eastern European immigratiom has no experience of mass Eastern European immigration.

The open door policy was madness. We should have followed the rules other EU countries did but our government chose not to. No we will leave the EU and will we enforce rules we could have enforced anyway? https://twitter.com/nickreeves9876/status/891576424745893888

We didn't have open borders because of the EU but our government. But all leavers knew that right?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We didn't have open borders because of the EU but our government. But all leavers knew that right?

As an aside I only recently discovered there was, and still is, no requirement for people who move to the uk from EU countries to register as living in the Uk. I find this quite bizarre.

 

[ManOfSussex]

The open door policy was madness. We should have followed the rules other EU countries did but our government chose not to. No we will leave the EU and will we enforce rules we could have enforced anyway? https://twitter.com/nickreeves9876/status/891576424745893888

We didn't have open borders because of the EU but our government. But all leavers knew that right?

If I recall correctly every EU country bar The UK, The Republic of Ireland and Sweden had transitional restrictions for the A8 succession countries in 2004. It was easier for The Home Office to introduce The Worker Registration Scheme/£50 for a photocopied piece of paper from an office in Sheffield. My Czech ex-girlfriend registered and The Home Office never actually cashed the cheque I wrote. Never mind, as photocopied A4 pieces of paper go, it was a really good one. Colour too.

Never mind that The UK's immigration policy wasn't The EU's fault, I find it bizarre that people think immigration will come down or we'll have 'control' after Brexit when the problem is the resources and various bodies of The Home Office, not EU membership. That isn't going to change because of Brexit.

 

[Berty23]

And the thing is it is obviously much much much easier for us to control the borders because we are a sodding island. Other countries in the EU could not believe the approach we took.