[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

2. (By the way Japan signed a free trade deal recently with.................the EU!

No they didn't.

 

[BigGully]

That's obvious, because there will be no agreement under which flights can operate between the U.K. and the EU. If we (as May has said) we don't want to be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ, then we have to leave the ECAA, and then negotiate our rights to fly. Crazy. But that's what the Brexiteers have condemned us to.

If to you, it is obvious from the overtly committed Remainer business Ryan Air could not continue to be a functioning UK - EU aviation business after Brexit, then how exactly do you think the demand will be met, or are you seriously saying that there will no longer be flights between us and the continent, if not then what are we all condemned to exactly ??

 

[GT49er]

On my desktop we have reached page 3245, I doubt there is a single page that doesn't include you two repeating this mantra, believe me everyone who has ever taken the most cursory glance at this thread, knows exactly where you to stand. I expect there to be a second referendum, for entirely practical reasons. Whilst both key parties are notionally in favour of exit, I can not see how Brexit Bulldog ace negotiator can come back with a deal that satisfies the majority of his own party let alone the Corbynistas.

If Parliament is not given a vote on the deal there will be a strong push for a vote of no confidence in the government. If you are a remain Tory in a remain area, to support this would be the end of your political career. I am sure that you and many others would urge them to do the right thing for the good of the country and maybe a few will accept the knighthood and life peerage, but the numbers don't look achievable right now.

A vote of no confidence driven by Brexit would be futile if it forces a general election where both main parties are in favour of Brexit. A change of government, would result in a new set of negotiations, followed 2 years later by the same impasse a Brexit proposal that can't proceed without a large government majority in the Commons and a strong party whip.

If you thought the DUP drove a hard bargain, wait until you see Corbyn's Brexit wish list. He holds all the cards, and he isn't ideologically tied to Brexit. He needs a deal far less than half the cabinet who have staked their political careers on Brexit. At the moment it is either a deal on his terms, or he brings down the government, by appearing entirely reasonable, which of course he is not.

I don't derive any satisfaction from this mess and I don't have any great desire to see this outcome, but what I believe can be negotiated is a second referendum, based on the terms agreed/proposed, with a binding agreement from parliament that the result will be respected and passed or rejected based on this outcome.

Yes, there is a serious concern that the Westminster elite, the majority of whom would crawl over broken glass to lick s*** out of the EU's arse crack to stay in, and who will pull any sort of stunt they can to thwart the result of the democratic referendum actually happening. They are an untrustworthy bunch out to feather their own nests - they cannot be trusted. They were all so far up their own a***s that they never believed that we, the people, would say 'No, stuff it, we don't want to be in'. Most of them cannot accept that it actually happened (just like many remoaners, who continue to try to pour abuse on the majority of their fellow citizens), or begin to realise why. They cannot be trusted to actually do what the public want them to do, and leave their gravy train behind.
We live in very worrying times.

 

[nicko31]

Loose cannon Boris back to his best today

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...lan-leaving-eu-without-any-deal-a7835201.html

 

[Blue3]

No they didn't.

The European Union and Japan have formally agreed an outline free-trade deal.
The agreement paves the way for trading in goods without tariff barriers between two of the world's biggest economic areas.
However, few specific details are known and a full, workable agreement may take some time.
Two of the most important sectors are Japanese cars and, for Europe, EU farming goods into Japan.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Yes, there is a serious concern that the Westminster elite, the majority of whom would crawl over broken glass to lick s*** out of the EU's arse crack to stay in, and who will pull any sort of stunt they can to thwart the result of the democratic referendum actually happening. They are an untrustworthy bunch out to feather their own nests - they cannot be trusted. They were all so far up their own a***s that they never believed that we, the people, would say 'No, stuff it, we don't want to be in'. Most of them cannot accept that it actually happened (just like many remoaners, who continue to try to pour abuse on the majority of their fellow citizens), or begin to realise why. They cannot be trusted to actually do what the public want them to do, and leave their gravy train behind.
We live in very worrying times.

I usually find your posts to be rational and sensible. This one not so much. Bad day at the office?

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

No they didn't.

You are strictly right: it's an outline trade deal .....but a significant direction of travel, I think.

 

[nicko31]

I usually find your posts to be rational and sensible. This one not so much. Bad day at the office?

Probably been listening to the Nigel Farage podcast, puts you in that kind of mood

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

All hypothetical obviously.

1.) Or will the perception be 'blimey they wouldn't bend over and accept any old deal with their biggest trading partner so we shouldn't push to hard if we really want a deal'

2.) There will obviously be a transition period but the new deals will involve two sides negotiating positions/priorities not 29. Nations including the one with the biggest economy have already said they are looking for swift deals. Is it 100% certain all the benefits of third party deals will automatically end?

3.) The exit costs are unknown until we finalise a deal and if we do leave with no deal the EU gets diddly squat and has a sudden huge black hole in their current and projected funding , which is one reason why I doubt we will end up with no deal.

Project Fear was woefully OTT and backfired, I don't remember any big campaign saying a smooth, pain free transition to sunny uplands was guaranteed but I do remember them saying a country the size of the UK can prosper outside the EU as an independent nation state like the vast majority of major countries around the world do.

I certainly agree with you that the campaign for leave was far superior to the campaign to stay, although where we'd disagree is that I'd be equally sure that the case to leave was weaker than the case to stay. The other thing we'd agree on is that we won't know the eventual outcome for a while - but so far things have not been looking great from where I'm standing. We might also agree that we don't want UK isolationism - but I think we are more likely to get this since we've started to leave. I think that world trade will be increasingly dominated by regionally integrated trading blocs but doubtless you don't.
But thanks for addressing the points.

 

[Two Professors]

'Prime Minister,the Russian tanks are pouring through the Fulda Gap.We desperately need your Typhoons and Tornadoes as both the German ones are up on bricks.'
'Sorry SACEUR,we're not allowed to fly over Europe any more,so we're just defending GREAT Britain now'

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

same old bad losers who can't face up to the fact we're leaving the EU , two choices, piss off or live with it
regards
DR

 

[daveinprague]

'Prime Minister,the Russian tanks are pouring through the Fulda Gap.We desperately need your Typhoons and Tornadoes as both the German ones are up on bricks.'
'Sorry SACEUR,we're not allowed to fly over Europe any more,so we're just defending GREAT Britain now'

Panavia Tornado and the Eurofighter Typhoon? lol Ironic

 

[portslade seagull]

Panavia Tornado and the Eurofighter Typhoon? lol Ironic

They sound like cocktails for your bar !!

 

[portslade seagull]

If to you, it is obvious from the overtly committed Remainer business Ryan Air could not continue to be a functioning UK - EU aviation business after Brexit, then how exactly do you think the demand will be met, or are you seriously saying that there will no longer be flights between us and the continent, if not then what are we all condemned to exactly ??

Hot air balloons and very long zip wires .... belt up !!!!!

 

[portslade seagull]

The European Union and Japan have formally agreed an outline free-trade deal.
The agreement paves the way for trading in goods without tariff barriers between two of the world's biggest economic areas.
However, few specific details are known and a full, workable agreement may take some time.
Two of the most important sectors are Japanese cars and, for Europe, EU farming goods into Japan.

Might not ever happen then, especially if the little Belgians dig their heels in again

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I certainly agree with you that the campaign for leave was far superior to the campaign to stay, although where we'd disagree is that I'd be equally sure that the case to leave was weaker than the case to stay. The other thing we'd agree on is that we won't know the eventual outcome for a while - but so far things have not been looking great from where I'm standing. We might also agree that we don't want UK isolationism - but I think we are more likely to get this since we've started to leave. I think that world trade will be increasingly dominated by regionally integrated trading blocs but doubtless you don't.
But thanks for addressing the points.

It makes a pleasant change exchanging views with someone more interested in finding areas of agreement rather than scoring cheap points.

I don't think we can afford to be isolationist and Brexit gives us the opportunity to be less Eurocentric. The trade block argument was probably the major reason I grudgingly tolerated our EEC/EU membership in the past but seeing the direction of travel was only ever leading to one destination and the numerous problems ever closer union was causing a tipping point was reached. If the EU had been more about trade and raising the living standards of all EU citizens and less about political intergration absorbing power to the centre, creating a Supranational entity/state a referendum would not have been needed.

 

[Two Professors]

Panavia Tornado and the Eurofighter Typhoon? lol Ironic

American missiles,Indian shells,British radar and electronics,proper international job.Just as well we spend the money to keep them flying,unlike the Germans.

 

[Two Professors]

If it happens I will gladly piss off somewhere better.
Ironic really as the brexiters didn't like it, so why didn't they piss off?

Because they're British,not Euroloons.

 

[Baldseagull]

Would that be after finalising the leaving deal and concluding our new trading relationship with the EU and allowing for any transition period and the setting up of new trade deals with the US, Australia, Canada, China, India etc ? ... probably about 2025 onwards then.

We will still be in a transition period in 2025, if we don't elect a government on the back of a remain pledge before that. No one is going to want to finalise this.

 

[The Rivet]

Yes but we are British AND Europeans. Why should we move?

No your not British you do not respect democracy.