[Politics] Brexit

[lawros left foot]

My aunt was in Southampton University Hospital earlier this year for six weeks. I ended up visiting her a dozen times and got to know the nurses and doctors on her ward really well. All bar a couple were non-Brits (Portuguese, Spanish, Polish). They were all fantastic. The type of Brexit that May wants will kill the NHS....which is, of course, what the Tory right wing wants.

It some are to stupid to see it.

 

[nicko31]

We've been hanging round beachy head with eleven and half months, think we're just found the number for the Samaritans. Think suicide now looks less likely

I predict a Farage comeback

 

[pastafarian]

Labour are the party of Brexit now, they always were, but Corbyn held his true views back until this election.


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Labour manifesto is now on the same wavelength as the Tory proposals for having a real Brexit. Labour are now " hard " brexit according to OpenEurope.
This is why so many UKIP voters felt comfortable enough returning to Labour, they have said free movement will end, we wont be members of the single market or customs union but will try to have all the benefits of them,and we will no longer be bound by the ECJ, returning law powers when we rid ourselves of their primacy will as much as possible be sent to devolved parliaments.
Im not convinced i can trust Labour to be the hard brexit people they are saying they will be in their manifesto though.......we will never know though as they lost the election.
Any current wobbles are just the moaners chancing their luck one last time with a last throw of the dice.
Lets not forget 82 % of the voters just voted for two parties that are now so called “ hard” brexit parties......We are leaving the EU......thats a fact

 

[pastafarian]

We've been hanging round beachy head with eleven and half months, think we're just found the number for the Samaritans. Think suicide now looks less likely

I predict a Farage comeback

im thinking the bloke is probably done, but what a ride he had,took on the establishment for 20 years from nowhere and forced and won a referendum.
It is maybe the greatest political story of my lifetime or anyones tbh

The highlights are great.

 

[Notters]

It'll free up work opportunities for our own British trained Nurses, except, there is a reduction in British students training to be nurses since the Tories stopped their bursaries

That's putting an overly positive spin on a very negative situation. Most likely they'll either be a) heavily understaffed, or b) have to reduce their capbility requirements.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

We've been hanging round beachy head with eleven and half months, think we're just found the number for the Samaritans. Think suicide now looks less likely

I predict a Farage comeback

Not a difficult call.
Every election seems to involve Farage either resigning, threatening to resign, coming back or threatening to come back. He is already making loud noises about a return, so it looks like a done deal.
The King is dead. Long live the King.

 

[vegster]

Not a difficult call.
Every election seems to involve Farage either resigning, threatening to resign, coming back or threatening to come back. He is already making loud noises about a return, so it looks like a done deal.
The King is dead. Long live the King.

Don't forget he's out of a cushy EU job in two years time and he will need to replace his revenue stream. No doubt there is a book due soon or a second book but it's not going to pay him what the EU did.

 

[Is it PotG?]

im thinking the bloke is probably done, but what a ride he had,took on the establishment for 20 years from nowhere and forced and won a referendum.
It is maybe the greatest political story of my lifetime or anyones tbh

The highlights are great.

Whatever anyone thinks of the content, his presentation skills and ability to engage as an orator clearly illustrate to the likes of May what they lacked in the Election campaign.

 

[pastafarian]

"Could" - at a near 100% drop surely they should have a better idea?

Im sure they are fully aware of the trend.
jan 2016 3,700 nurses from Europe apply
Language tests come in to play for nurses
feb 2016 861 nurses from Europe apply....numbers falling ever since
this was all before the Brexit vote

Fortunately everyone agrees from all political spectrums and NHS organisations themselves that being able to speak good English is imperative

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The fact that half of UKIP supporters in 2015 (virtually all of whom would have ticked Leave in 2016) voted Labour rather than Tory last week suggests that large numbers of Leave voters aren't that bothered anyway. It is very easy to be misled by the ultras (plenty of them on here) who just listen to their own echoes. If Leave box tickers were really concerned about it the heavy Brexit Tory Party would have romped home last week.

Utter utter bollocks. I voted leave and I want 'hard' exit - i.e. complete and utter exit. I voted Labour this GE because the national parties BOTH Labour and Tory were so awful and the local sitting MP was so good. I still want a proper exit and if the Tories back down ( as is being suggested in the Telegraph today ) my vote next time will immediately revert to UKIP. We've been betrayed since the early 70's around the truth of the EEC / EU ( something Heath admitted ). If the Tories betray the referendum result then they deserve to never govern again.

The remainers should stop assuming that the result of the GE was leavers changing their minds on leaving ..... it wasn't and the assumption makes them look a bit stupid.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Labour manifesto is now on the same wavelength as the Tory proposals for having a real Brexit. Labour are now " hard " brexit according to OpenEurope.
This is why so many UKIP voters felt comfortable enough returning to Labour, they have said free movement will end, we wont be members of the single market or customs union but will try to have all the benefits of them,and we will no longer be bound by the ECJ, returning law powers when we rid ourselves of their primacy will as much as possible be sent to devolved parliaments.
Im not convinced i can trust Labour to be the hard brexit people they are saying they will be in their manifesto though.......we will never know though as they lost the election.
Any current wobbles are just the moaners chancing their luck one last time with a last throw of the dice.
Lets not forget 82 % of the voters just voted for two parties that are now so called “ hard” brexit parties......We are leaving the EU......thats a fact

I don't think we are leaving at all now, and no you can't trust Labour to deliver on Brexit. The Tories now cannot be trusted either. They are all slowly rolling back, and this idea we can cancel free movement and get a good deal isn't going to happen. Soft Brexit really means remaining in the EU. Will be voting UKIP if they are still around at the next GE.

 

[lawros left foot]

That's putting an overly positive spin on a very negative situation. Most likely they'll either be a) heavily understaffed, or b) have to reduce their capbility requirements.

I was being extremely sarcastic

 

[The Clamp]

im thinking the bloke is probably done, but what a ride he had,took on the establishment for 20 years from nowhere and forced and won a referendum.
It is maybe the greatest political story of my lifetime or anyones tbh

The highlights are great.

Farage had little to do with Brexit. It would have gone to referendum with or without UKIP.
It was done by Cameron to stem in house fighting.


"This is reaching a crescendo"... and like that, 23 years later we have a referendum.
Farage is a no- mark. Always has been.
UKIP have all but disappeared, not because their work is done but because people now realise they advocate Brexit, the worst thing to happen to the UK in a few lifetimes.

If "Brexit" even happens.

 

[pastafarian]

Utter utter bollocks. I voted leave and I want 'hard' exit - i.e. complete and utter exit. I voted Labour this GE because the national parties BOTH Labour and Tory were so awful and the local sitting MP was so good. I still want a proper exit and if the Tories back down ( as is being suggested in the Telegraph today ) my vote next time will immediately revert to UKIP. We've been betrayed since the early 70's around the truth of the EEC / EU ( something Heath admitted ). If the Tories betray the referendum result then they deserve to never govern again.

The remainers should stop assuming that the result of the GE was leavers changing their minds on leaving ..... it wasn't and the assumption makes them look a bit stupid.

Both Labour and Tory manifestos are now hard Brexit.
But you are correct, if the Torys betray the referendum result and go soft brexit they will cease to be electable for ever........probably why they are not contemplating this so called "soft" option

 

[lawros left foot]

Utter utter bollocks. I voted leave and I want 'hard' exit - i.e. complete and utter exit. I voted Labour this GE because the national parties BOTH Labour and Tory were so awful and the local sitting MP was so good. I still want a proper exit and if the Tories back down ( as is being suggested in the Telegraph today ) my vote next time will immediately revert to UKIP. We've been betrayed since the early 70's around the truth of the EEC / EU ( something Heath admitted ). If the Tories betray the referendum result then they deserve to never govern again.

The remainers should stop assuming that the result of the GE was leavers changing their minds on leaving ..... it wasn't and the assumption makes them look a bit stupid.

Apart from a few obsessionals, I really don't think Brexit was top of ordinary voters list, when it came down to who to vote for. The older voter was voting on the triple lock, winter heating allowance, and the dementia tax, the younger voters it was tuition fees, austerity, fairness, and maybe, for us remoaners a little bit of revenge for Brexit.
Only the Greens and the Lib Dems were advocating a second referendum, and, quite honestly this election was too important to waste a vote on them, much as I admire some of their policies.

 

[pastafarian]

Farage had little to do with Brexit. It would have gone to referendum with or without UKIP.
It was done by Cameron to stem in house fighting.


"This is reaching a crescendo"... and like that, 23 years later we have a referendum.
Farage is a no- mark. Always has been.
UKIP have all but disappeared, not because their work is done but because people now realise they advocate Brexit, the worst thing to happen to the UK in a few lifetimes.

If "Brexit" even happens.

"Farage had little to do with Brexit"
I thought i couldnt stop laughing when you recently said "If brexit happens".....coupled with your thoughts that a second referendum was weeks away from the first and that you convinced yourself the economy was crashing......even though it wasnt .......forgive me if i cant stop wetting myself with laughter every time you post something brexit related

you really are a gift

 

[heathgate]

I can see a raft of high profile Brexiteer MP'S drifting away from Labour and Conservatives if Brexit involves free movement and/or legislative primacy with ECJ .... that then could see UKIP or another new party, maybe with some heavy hitters at the helm, taking to the polls.

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[pastafarian]

UKIP have all but disappeared, not because their work is done but because people now realise they advocate Brexit, .

Yes i think they were quite clear.
Who are these people that have only just realised it?

 

[beorhthelm]

UKIP have all but disappeared, not because their work is done but because people now realise they advocate Brexit, the worst thing to happen to the UK in a few lifetimes.

and yet its a manifesto pledge for both main parties?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Utter utter bollocks. I voted leave and I want 'hard' exit - i.e. complete and utter exit. I voted Labour this GE because the national parties BOTH Labour and Tory were so awful and the local sitting MP was so good. I still want a proper exit and if the Tories back down ( as is being suggested in the Telegraph today ) my vote next time will immediately revert to UKIP. We've been betrayed since the early 70's around the truth of the EEC / EU ( something Heath admitted ). If the Tories betray the referendum result then they deserve to never govern again.

The remainers should stop assuming that the result of the GE was leavers changing their minds on leaving ..... it wasn't and the assumption makes them look a bit stupid.

Both Labour and Tory manifestos are now hard Brexit.
But you are correct, if the Torys betray the referendum result and go soft brexit they will cease to be electable for ever........probably why they are not contemplating this so called "soft" option

I think you two are both overstating the importance of what brexit actually is. 52% - 48%. Not all of the 52% would have voted for a 'hard' brexit like you 2 did. Even if a modest 10% only voted leave for sovereignty reasons but happy to remain in the single market, then 58% of the electorate would supposedly be happier with a soft brexit.

You both seem to believe the referendum was far more detailed than what the question was asked of us, do we leave or remain. No other detail, no other proposal of what that meant. None of us voted on the type of deal, what that would be, hard, soft, it is all up for grabs, the only decision is to leave the EU. There is no betrayal of the referendum result if we leave, even if the softest possible deal looking like we are almost in it, but just out, we are still out, the referendum is still fulfilled. If you are not happy, you can join the min 48% that won't be happy either. In fact, this referendum was never going to have a majority of people happy.

As with all referendums, it leaves our political system in turmoil, creating only division. This is proving to be the case. There will be no majority happy with the type of brexit, whether hard, soft, in between, stay in, there will not be majority consensus, it simply won't happen.