[Politics] Brexit

[cunning fergus]

Fine. But promise me you won't start moaning if the EU fight and play hard for the best deal for them.

They won't fight that hard if they will fight at all because the consequences are nightmarish all round.

The prospect of WTO tariffs would be catastrophic for the Irish economy in particular which is why their PM is explaining their position with EZ colleagues.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...f-spanish-gdp-internal-report-shows-1.3005384

Any act of spite on the UK by the EU would be a act of self harm on other members of the EZ.

So, relax, Anglo Saxon style capitalist pragmatism will win out.......

 

[cunning fergus]

Your confidence in success is noted.

As is your pessimism.

 

[cunning fergus]

So 44 years of being worse off before leavers admit getting our country back wasn't financially worthwhile.

Maybe success should not just be assessed in solely financial terms, I know you Tories are obsessed about money.

For example, one success factor could be the reduction of the UK's population of foreign prisoners.........less burden on the public purse to pay for the imprisonment of foreign criminals, less murders, rapes etc.

 

[cunning fergus]

The clock ticking on a process that can be derailed by any one of 27 nations who's need for a deal is less urgent than ours; building new deals with countries outside the EU who are not subject to the same time pressures and in an atmosphere of increased protectionism. In case this wasn't good enough.....I give you the political giants that are Johnson and Davies.

I know that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but without the Kool Aid I can't see how anyone can see us as being in a position of relative strength.

Can you give a reason why any of these countries would want to derail the democratic will of the British people?

You have a point about the relative priority of Brexit to the rEU but that is only because they have to shore up a rotten structure that is collapsing from within politically and economically.

Unduly delaying the UK's exit negotiations will be a distraction from dealing with these problems.........the EU may be incompetent but I don't think they are insane.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As is your pessimism.

I'm not pessimistic, far from it. I think the EU has sufficient ability and strength to work out what the best outcome for us is....and then fight for it. We'll see but I think we'll get a good deal.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Can you give a reason why any of these countries would want to derail the democratic will of the British people?

You have a point about the relative priority of Brexit to the rEU but that is only because they have to shore up a rotten structure that is collapsing from within politically and economically.

Unduly delaying the UK's exit negotiations will be a distraction from dealing with these problems.........the EU may be incompetent but I don't think they are insane.

I don't think anyone is suggesting derailing or being spiteful. More that what is best for the EU might not be best for the UK. Conversely I would expect the UK to do what's best for UK and not the EU....why wouldn't you?

 

[cunning fergus]

I know you see it differently, I am asking why? Why is it more concerning for you to have a neighbour that was born in France than one that was born in Scotland?

Where have I said that would be concerning?

 

[cunning fergus]

I don't think anyone is suggesting derailing or being spiteful. More that what is best for the EU might not be best for the UK. Conversely I would expect the UK to do what's best for UK and not the EU....why wouldn't you?

Absolutely, so given the inter connected nature of our trading relationship etc. its in all countries interest to be pragmatic.

See........your pessimism didn't last long.

Could be the first time we have ever agreed on something.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm not pessimistic, far from it. I think the EU has sufficient ability and strength to work out what the best outcome for us is....and then fight for it. We'll see but I think we'll get a good deal.

Yep, I think the UK is in a good spot, similarly you Germans will be fine too.......we will still buy your cars.

 

[studio150]

Maybe success should not just be assessed in solely financial terms, I know you Tories are obsessed about money.

For example, one success factor could be the reduction of the UK's population of foreign prisoners.........less burden on the public purse to pay for the imprisonment of foreign criminals, less murders, rapes etc.

Murders and rapes committed by EU nationals in the UK is something like 0.02% in number terms in relation to all EU immigrants.

Therefore a reduction while reducing the risk to UK citizens wont make much difference as a whole.

 

[cunning fergus]

The axe attack in Dusseldorf is unconnected to anything else, as far as we know.
Some other incidents have a connection, in that the perpetrators may have been inspired by the same source to carry out their attacks. I don't think any of them have been carried out by EU citizens, moving from one state to another under freedom of movement of labour rules.
There was a French born woman involved in the Paris attacks, a German born man behind the shootings in Munich, a Norwegian man behind the 77 murdered in Norway. I don't see how ending freedom of movement for EU citizens would have prevented them being where they were, or the Tunisian born man behind the wheel of the truck in Berlin, or the Afghani refugee who hacked at passengers on a train last year in Germany.

As I understand it this case shares a number of factors with a number of other other cases........in short the perpetrator was a male refugee with mental health problems.

Now, I don't know about you, but given the precedence of these attacks in recent times, if I was German I would be seeking reassurance from the German Govt on who it was letting into the country.

I suppose it's like living in a house with no front door........if someone lived that way and then they had their stuff stolen people wouldn't be that sympathetic.......they would shrug their shoulders and say, what did you expect if you didn't have a door?

 

[cunning fergus]

Murders and rapes committed by EU nationals in the UK is something like 0.02% in number terms in relation to all EU immigrants.

Therefore a reduction while reducing the risk to UK citizens wont make much difference as a whole.

Circa 10,000 foreigners in U.K. Prisons (about 1 in every 8) suggests there is a sizeable saving on costs to be made.

As for the percentage I couldn't care less what is, British citizens should expect it's Govt to have appropriate border security arrangements to protect them. Preventing foreigners with convictions for violent crimes from entering the UK is one such control and would have saved lives in the UK had it been place.

I know you disagree, but there you are.

 

[The Rivet]

Your confidence in success is noted.

As has your confidence in an out dated and flawed EU ideology.

 

[brighton fella]

I see gobshite Geldof made a fool of himself at a corporate city do conference at Heathrow. A shit Brexit speech. See the comments. I wonder how Geldof made his 30+ milions from a couple of average records. Give us the live aid receipts "Sir" Bob.

"Live aid receipts" more chance of shitting in the queens handbag. The mans a parasite along with his bum chum pal Bono. dirty thieving low life bast@rds the pair of them.

"Sir" i'll give him sir the dirty no good piece of shite.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I'm not pessimistic, far from it. I think the EU has sufficient ability and strength to work out what the best outcome for us is....and then fight for it. We'll see but I think we'll get a good deal.

are you still dreaming of a master race
regards
DR

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As I understand it this case shares a number of factors with a number of other other cases........in short the perpetrator was a male refugee with mental health problems.

Now, I don't know about you, but given the precedence of these attacks in recent times, if I was German I would be seeking reassurance from the German Govt on who it was letting into the country.

I suppose it's like living in a house with no front door........if someone lived that way and then they had their stuff stolen people wouldn't be that sympathetic.......they would shrug their shoulders and say, what did you expect if you didn't have a door?

Well, there's an election this year. I guess if the nation has an issue with the Schengen, and isn't reassured, they will vote accordingly.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As I understand it this case shares a number of factors with a number of other other cases........in short the perpetrator was a male refugee with mental health problems.

Now, I don't know about you, but given the precedence of these attacks in recent times, if I was German I would be seeking reassurance from the German Govt on who it was letting into the country.

I suppose it's like living in a house with no front door........if someone lived that way and then they had their stuff stolen people wouldn't be that sympathetic.......they would shrug their shoulders and say, what did you expect if you didn't have a door?

PS you used, and we ignored, the no-door argument earlier today. Repetition won't make it any less daft.

 

[nicko31]

Interesting piece, although it is wrong to say that all Remainers thought that everything was fine and dandy across the UK. This country has been dreadfully run for most of my lifetime and huge numbers of people have become disconnected from the guilty people in power. You don't have to know areas like Lincolnshire and the rustbelt northern cities to be aware of that although it might help. I can understand why they stuck their middle fingers in the air on June 23 although my argument (which I won't restate here) is that it didn't have much at all to do with our membership of the European Union.

Indeed Europe was a scapegoat they understood little about, only what they read in the tabloids. Ultimately it will be a spectacular own goal and will only increase inequality, the Tories right now are creating a faux hope. The budget was a fine example, those with money are getting richer while the poor continue to fall behind

We'll have Tories till 2025 unless Labour can come to their senses, or maybe longer if fracture of the UK occurs precipitated by their sheer arrogance

 

[The Rivet]

Well, there's an election this year. I guess if the nation has an issue with the Schengen, and isn't reassured, they will vote accordingly.

Oh they will vote accordingly alright. Just like France will (tactically of course). The only doubt for me is Gerts Wilders effort in the Netherlands but then, they have limited seats and too many political parties. No deal done there then either. So the tatters that Schengen represents will be celebrated as if rising like a Phoenix. Sounds like a nightmare. Good luck with all that.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Indeed Europe was a scapegoat they understood little about, only what they read in the tabloids. Ultimately it will be a spectacular own goal and will only increase inequality, the Tories right now are creating a faux hope. The budget was a fine example, those with money are getting richer while the poor continue to fall behind

We'll have Tories till 2025 unless Labour can come to their senses, or maybe longer if fracture of the UK occurs precipitated by their sheer arrogance

Weak defeatist talk ,when are you and Lincoln imp leaving the country
regards
DR