[Politics] Brexit

[The Rivet]

If you want to disagree let's have a wager. I reckon they'll have announced the move within 1 year of the Brexit talks concluding.

Sorry I'm rather Conservative don't ya know!

 

[BigGully]

You've got me here I'm afraid. I asked someone why they wanted the EU to fall apart in view of the fact that such a huge disintegration would seriously damage the economy of the EU, its close trading partner. The question was not pro or anti EU, it was not about reasonable positions or punitive deals. It was simply about the night-follows-day effects of a huge political and economic event on the well-being of the UK.

I therefore don't understand the point you make above. Perhaps you read something into my post that wasn't there.

You seem to clearly see the disadvantage of wanting the EU region to fail, yet you see an inevitable punitive deal from the EU to the UK, which you seem to qualify as reasonable

It is neither in the interests of either the EU or the UK for either to penalise each other, but it seems exclusively a EU position of expecting or actively seeking to do so, where as the UK wants continued free trade which will continue to benefit both.

It isnt as if the UK had been a net recipient of £billions and then walked away we have been a vast net contributer, yet still committed europhiles seems to suggest its quite a reasonable response by the EU to initiate some detrimental actions towards us.

I apologise if I have misinterpreted you position here, but I had thought as a committed europhile this has been your view.

 

[Soulman]

For all the song and dance Remainers made about the mooted leaving of the European Medicines Agency, it's been very quiet today regarding the announced Novo Nordisk Oxford project. 10 years, so medium term it's fair to say.

It's been very quiet today on this thread because the moaners have switched/are busy on the Trump thread.
Nothing like a petition and a good old march with banners to get them to forget.

 

[beorhthelm]

Highly unlikely I'd say.

i agree and dont see it happening, but even being discussed is interesting. you'd expect discussion on wether it leaves now or upon Brexit, and to which country, not floating the possiblity they would keep the existing office open for the foreseeable.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You seem to clearly see the disadvantage of wanting the EU region to fail, yet you see an inevitable punitive deal from the EU to the UK, which you seem to qualify as reasonable

You don't have to be a Europhile to see the disadvantages to the wider world of the EU collapsing surely?

The deal between the UK and the EU is a separate issue of course. I can't imagine the EU would want to punish us for punishment's sake but I would expect them to fight for the deal which would give them the best outcome economically and politically. We, as the originators of the action, will surely do the same. I expect a claim that the EU negotiators are simply being petulant and vindictive to be a default staple of Brexit tabloids and politicians in the months to come but I'm afraid I can't buy that.

 

[Soulman]

I expect a claim that the EU negotiators are simply being petulant and vindictive to be a default staple of Brexit tabloids and politicians in the months to come but I'm afraid I can't buy that.

Really, do you not remember.

A GERMAN politician has issued an extraordinary threat to Britain over its economic future by revealing his party will vote down any Brexit deal which preserves London's status as the world's global financial centre.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-MEP-Manfred-Weber-City-London-European-Union

And a different German minister.


Germany has warned that it will shut Britain out of the single market if voters opt for Brexit in the European Union referendum.

Wolfgang Schäuble, the finance minister, said the bloc would still work without the United Kingdom and that “at some point the British will realise they have taken the wrong decision”.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germanys-eu-threat-to-britain-g8bnms5xv

Britain WILL pay: Germany issues NASTY Brexit threat as UK faces years of EU payments
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/733688/Germany-Brexit-threat-UK-EU-payments-Wolfgang-Schauble

 

[BigGully]

You don't have to be a Europhile to see the disadvantages to the wider world of the EU collapsing surely?

The deal between the UK and the EU is a separate issue of course. I can't imagine the EU would want to punish us for punishment's sake but I would expect them to fight for the deal which would give them the best outcome economically and politically. We, as the originators of the action, will surely do the same. I expect a claim that the EU negotiators are simply being petulant and vindictive to be a default staple of Brexit tabloids and politicians in the months to come but I'm afraid I can't buy that.

'Originators of the action' ??, you mean the democratic referendum ??

Why are you so committed to not wishing the EU to fail, yet casually accept that the UK might deserve some economic and political punishment, for me its a strange mindset.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Really, do you not remember.

A GERMAN politician has issued an extraordinary threat to Britain over its economic future by revealing his party will vote down any Brexit deal which preserves London's status as the world's global financial centre.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-MEP-Manfred-Weber-City-London-European-Union

And a different German minister.


Germany has warned that it will shut Britain out of the single market if voters opt for Brexit in the European Union referendum.

Wolfgang Schäuble, the finance minister, said the bloc would still work without the United Kingdom and that “at some point the British will realise they have taken the wrong decision”.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germanys-eu-threat-to-britain-g8bnms5xv

Britain WILL pay: Germany issues NASTY Brexit threat as UK faces years of EU payments
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/733688/Germany-Brexit-threat-UK-EU-payments-Wolfgang-Schauble

The Times report does not describe vindictive action - as things develop it seems that if anyone is shutting Britain out of the single market it is Britain. The other two reports you choose are from the Express and I am sorry but anything from that xenophobic, hating and mendacious excuse for a newspaper is not worth discussing. I know you like that publication but we have to disagree.

 

[GT49er]

I expect a claim that the EU negotiators are simply being petulant and vindictive to be a default staple of Brexit tabloids and politicians in the months to come but I'm afraid I can't buy that.

Realistically, I think that would depend on how the negotiations progressed, don't you?

 

[pastafarian]

The other two reports you choose are from the Express and I am sorry but anything from that xenophobic, hating and mendacious excuse for a newspaper is not worth discussing. I know you like that publication but we have to disagree.

what a pathetic childish way to debate information presented to you.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Interesting interview with Guy Verhofstadt on newsnight, Is anyone going to read his book?

 

[GT49er]

Interesting interview with Guy Verhofstadt on newsnight, Is anyone going to read his book?

No. You couldn't pay me enough to do so (well, actually, if you got millions to chuck away, you probably can!)

 

[Billy the Fish]

You don't have to be a Europhile to see the disadvantages to the wider world of the EU collapsing surely?

The deal between the UK and the EU is a separate issue of course. I can't imagine the EU would want to punish us for punishment's sake but I would expect them to fight for the deal which would give them the best outcome economically and politically. We, as the originators of the action, will surely do the same. I expect a claim that the EU negotiators are simply being petulant and vindictive to be a default staple of Brexit tabloids and politicians in the months to come but I'm afraid I can't buy that.

It wouldn't surprise me if the European parliament refuses to ratify any deal with us regardless of what's in it. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, for all the fuss that's going on at the moment with our own parliamentary scrutiny and Jimmy Krankie trying stick her oar in at every opportunity, if the MEPs want to make a political point they have the power to do it and IMHO they will.

 

[Billy the Fish]

No. You couldn't pay me enough to do so (well, actually, if you got millions to chuck away, you probably can!)

£18.99 on Amazon, hardback only and no kindle edition. Think I'll pass.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

'Originators of the action' ??, you mean the democratic referendum ??

Why are you so committed to not wishing the EU to fail, yet casually accept that the UK might deserve some economic and political punishment, for me its a strange mindset.

With our diverging views you've got plenty of reasons to have a pop at me but I'm not sure why you're pursuing this angle.

"Originator of the action". By this I mean the tabling of A50, which of course followed the referendum. There was no criticism implied in my expression, and no disagreement between us.

I don't want the EU to fail for two reasons. One, because I believe that it is a force for good and will over time benefit all its members and, two, because a collapse would cause the UK serious economic harm. In the circumstances can't really understand why any British citizen would want the EU to fail.

Regarding the economic and political punishment I'm going to have to ask you to tell me where I accept, casually or otherwise, that the UK might deserve it. All I have said is that both sides will fight for the best deal for themselves.

The tabloids will try to pretend that nasty foreign people are going to be vindictive for the sake of it - because they hate us basically - and are happy to damage themselves if they can stick one on the Brits, but that's just predictable posturing, surely?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

what a pathetic childish way to debate information presented to you.

From the man who calls me a hypocritical moron with blood on his hands I find that a bit strange. I'll stick with my view of the Daily Express if that's all right with you.

 

[BigGully]

With our diverging views you've got plenty of reasons to have a pop at me but I'm not sure why you're pursuing this angle.

"Originator of the action". By this I mean the tabling of A50, which of course followed the referendum. There was no criticism implied in my expression, and no disagreement between us.

I don't want the EU to fail for two reasons. One, because I believe that it is a force for good and will over time benefit all its members and, two, because a collapse would cause the UK serious economic harm. In the circumstances can't really understand why any British citizen would want the EU to fail.

Regarding the economic and political punishment I'm going to have to ask you to tell me where I accept, casually or otherwise, that the UK might deserve it. All I have said is that both sides will fight for the best deal for themselves.

The tabloids will try to pretend that nasty foreign people are going to be vindictive for the sake of it - because they hate us basically - and are happy to damage themselves if they can stick one on the Brits, but that's just predictable posturing, surely?

OK I accept that, all pretty reasonable, our only disagreement is that somehow you think the current version is a force for good, I do not, I think it has become a burgeoning political project and isnt taking its people with it and that is why I am sure the EU as we know it will soon unravel.

 

[Soulman]

From the man who calls me a hypocritical moron with blood on his hands I find that a bit strange. I'll stick with my view of the Daily Express if that's all right with you.

I will try to get my sources from another outlet, although you seem to have so many on your blacklist it might prove tricky. I do believe that a similar story was reported in the Guardian, these usually prompt no response from posters with a similar view to you.

 

[Titanic]

https://order-order.com/2017/01/31/top-city-lobby-group-u-turns-backs-brexit/

Number One Square Mile lobby group TheCityUK has performed a complete u-turn, abandoning its Remain position and instead embracing Brexit. TheCityUK – which represents major banks and professional services firms – said leaving the EU is a “once-in-a-generation opportunity” and declared:

“TheCityUK is a strong believer in the potential opportunities that the UK’s departure from the European Union will offer.”

Before Brexit they said:

“A Brexit risks damaging our industry in the UK through uncertainty, reduced market access and a loss of influence over trading conditions. Major global businesses also come to London to access the Single Market – but that position is dependent on the legal freedoms made available by the Treaties and Single Market legislation. The overall competitiveness of the UK as a place to do business would therefore be threatened by Brexit.”

Screech…

 

[WonderingSoton]

Jaguar Landrover investing 130m in their Liverpool plant . It currently employs 6000 staff and produces a vehicle every 82 seconds. The factory is now being enlarged.

They obviously aren't worried about exports.