[Politics] Brexit

[Soulman]

Given that the EU felt the concessions he won were substantial, you can see that the expectations of what the UK and the EU feel is fair and reasonable, are going to be quite different.

Really "substantial", would the concessions "he won" have ever been put in place, the EU just agreed in principle, mainly in the hope that the UK voters would be taken in and vote Remain.
Once that happened ( it did not though) then the "substantial" and "won" could become null and void.

 

[Soulman]

Interesting piece on Sky News from Burnley just now. 67 per cent Leave vote and it seems that most Leavers were driven by factors not directly connected to our membership of the European Union. I suppose most of us knew that anyway.

Same survey that studio 150 was on about where " Burnley fish n chip woman we are going to have a civil war if the government fail to deliver on Brexit." was it.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Same survey that studio 150 was on about where " Burnley fish n chip woman we are going to have a civil war if the government fail to deliver on Brexit." was it.

It wasn't a survey, it was a vox pop piece on two places - Burnley and Glasgow - that voted 67 percent one way or the other in the referendum. Fish and chip lady did appear. One group of people the Burnley-dwellers appeared not to like was, um, you and me. Southern types.

 

[alfredmizen]

It wasn't a survey, it was a vox pop piece on two places - Burnley and Glasgow - that voted 67 percent one way or the other in the referendum. Fish and chip lady did appear. One group of people the Burnley-dwellers appeared not to like was, um, you and me. Southern types.

You still saw fit to quote it.to back up your case though didn't You ? As for not.liking southern types , I think it's southern metropolitan elite types that are unpopular, not.your average wage slave.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You still saw fit to quote it.to back up your case though didn't You ? As for not.liking southern types , I think it's southern metropolitan elite types that are unpopular, not.your average wage slave.

I was simply reporting the facts. I apologise if they don't fit what you want to hear. Would you have been happier if I had quoted the Sky survey revealing that a significant percentage of the population now feel that the country is less divided than it was?

 

[studio150]

Interesting piece on Sky News from Burnley just now. 67 per cent Leave vote and it seems that most Leavers were driven by factors not directly connected to our membership of the European Union. I suppose most of us knew that anyway.

No No we have been told countless times on here it was about sovereignty controlled immigration and not paying into Europe for the money to be wasted.
It had nothing to do with being owed a living, wanting more benefit money or disliking the wealthy south.
Just seems Burnley didn't get the message.

 

[Soulman]

I was simply reporting the facts. I apologise if they don't fit what you want to hear. Would you have been happier if I had quoted the Sky survey revealing that a significant percentage of the population now feel that the country is less divided than it was?

No need to apologise, you have found an article that was a " a vox pop piece on two places ", you simply reported the "facts" because they fit what you "support" and "want to hear.".......nothing wrong with that, we all pick out what we want to hear, does not mean others have to agree.

 

[The Rivet]

A deal with Europe.
So we have the setting. A democratic mandate via the 23 June says exit.
Whatever the spin now it was obvious then that leaving meant control on immigration, out of the single market, no contributions (without good reason) and OUR law supremacy. Lets start with that. That is our mandate. That is what is going to happen.
Now we know it will affect us and the EU but it is up to the EU what relationship they want. Free trade or a bitch fest. We HAVE to support the democratic voice otherwise democracy is dead. Grow a pair of bollocks and tell them that is it!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Interesting piece on Sky News from Burnley just now. 67 per cent Leave vote and it seems that most Leavers were driven by factors not directly connected to our membership of the European Union. I suppose most of us knew that anyway.

It wasn't a survey, it was a vox pop piece on two places - Burnley and Glasgow - that voted 67 percent one way or the other in the referendum. Fish and chip lady did appear. One group of people the Burnley-dwellers appeared not to like was, um, you and me. Southern types.

Yet Lord Ashcrofts poll, which you continually, conveniently ignore (unless to reinforce negative stereotyping of Leave voters) clearly supports the argument that most Leave voters did vote on issues directly connected to our EU membership.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

 

[Baldseagull]

A deal with Europe.
So we have the setting. A democratic mandate via the 23 June says exit.
Whatever the spin now it was obvious then that leaving meant control on immigration, out of the single market, no contributions (without good reason) and OUR law supremacy. Lets start with that. That is our mandate. That is what is going to happen.
Now we know it will affect us and the EU but it is up to the EU what relationship they want. Free trade or a bitch fest. We HAVE to support the democratic voice otherwise democracy is dead. Grow a pair of bollocks and tell them that is it!

Genius.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Genius.

Agree, [MENTION=20840]The Rivet[/MENTION] summarised it perfectly.

 

[GT49er]

A deal with Europe.
So we have the setting. A democratic mandate via the 23 June says exit.
Whatever the spin now it was obvious then that leaving meant control on immigration, out of the single market, no contributions (without good reason) and OUR law supremacy. Lets start with that. That is our mandate. That is what is going to happen.
Now we know it will affect us and the EU but it is up to the EU what relationship they want. Free trade or a bitch fest. We HAVE to support the democratic voice otherwise democracy is dead. Grow a pair of bollocks and tell them that is it!

But it will require an accomplished diplomat, well experienced in EU diplomacy, sympathetic to the aims of the EU and with good connections with (and well liked by} all the other European leaders to put that one across, eh? Now that we've lost our career Europhile negotiator who didn't believe in leaving at all!

 

[GT49er]

Agree, [MENTION=20840]The Rivet[/MENTION] summarised it perfectly.

Yes, he did actually.

 

[Baldseagull]

Yet Lord Ashcrofts poll, which you continually, conveniently ignore (unless to reinforce negative stereotyping of Leave voters) clearly supports the argument that most Leave voters did vote on issues directly connected to our EU membership.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

Polls usually give respondents a box to tick. I suspect it did not occur to Lord Ashcroft to ask if the reason they voted to leave the EU was to curb Islamic immigration, because they didn't like southerners or because they like Boris Johnson more than David Cameron.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Polls usually give respondents a box to tick. I suspect it did not occur to Lord Ashcroft to ask if the reason they voted to leave the EU was to curb Islamic immigration, because they didn't like southerners or because they like Boris Johnson more than David Cameron.

This poll, taken immediately after the vote, with a very large sample, gave both leave and remain respondents different options to give an indication of what they thought was more important to them. Which is probably more believable than a vox pop or random clips of voters giving daft reasons. Funniest one I heard was staying in to reform the EU in a direction more to our liking .... Hilarious.

 

[GT49er]

Funniest one I heard was staying in to reform the EU in a direction more to our liking .... Hilarious.

Yes, that was one of the more ridiculous - one might even say fatuous - suggestions put forward by the remain campaign. Personally, I think it might well have been the one that tipped the scales in favour of leave, and lost them the referendum.

 

[Baldseagull]

This poll, taken immediately after the vote, with a very large sample, gave both leave and remain respondents different options to give an indication of what they thought was more important to them. Which is probably more believable than a vox pop or random clips of voters giving daft reasons. Funniest one I heard was staying in to reform the EU in a direction more to our liking .... Hilarious.

It really is not hard to find a leave voter whose primary concern was Islamic immigration, I am not aware of any poll that included this question, and I know you understand why, but it frequently crops up when you ask the open question " Why did you vote leave?"
Given the blind optimism that it seems is required for Brexit, and the ability of British Politicians and negotiators, I can't understand why you are so pessimistic about the chances of British politicians to attain sensible change, if we remained in the EU?

 

[beorhthelm]

...I can't understand why you are so pessimistic about the chances of British politicians to attain sensible change, if we remained in the EU?

Cameron went and asked for concessions and change and got nothing tangible in return. EU doesnt want reform and watering down of terms that most trouble the UK. and thank Merkel for making Islamic immigration an EU issue, quite wrongly of course, but dont blame the voters for their concerns when no one addressed them.

 

[BigGully]

The UK plays hard ball it's called getting the best deal. The EU plays hard ball it's called being powerful and punitive.

Not at all, we have democratically voted to leave, the EU has been the net recipient of £Billions of our taxes, we have been an important export market and one of its largest EU economies and a critical ally in the security of the region and beyond and we expect to continue to be its closest partner.

You tell me which part you feel the EU has every right to play hardball against the democratic wishes of the UK and we can then see if it should be deemed punitive or not, free trade aspirations ? regaining control of our borders ? withdrawing from the European Court of Justice and returning ultimate legal governance to the UK ?

Everything should in my eyes be quite conciliatory but it seems not, thats when in my eyes it is no longer reasonable and is then punitive.

 

[studio150]

Yet Lord Ashcrofts poll, clearly supports the argument that most Leave voters did vote on issues directly connected to our EU membership.

But not in Burnley given the comments from the locals and which have been continually in the local paper according to the on screen interview with the editor.