[Politics] Brexit

[warmleyseagull]

If exit polls are to be believed, Renzi seems to have lost the Italian referendum by about 10 points. Shame it wasn't about Itexit.

If 5SM & Northern League gain enough momentum from this then Itexit from Euro is definitely on. Italy leaving the Euro would be a bigger deal than Brexit. Euro down to $1.06 already.

 

[nicko31]

If Mr Renzi resigns, it could plunge Italy into political turmoil and cause economic instability in the struggling eurozone country.
The result is another blow to the European Union, which is struggling to overcome a number of crises and was keen for Mr Renzi to continue his reform drive.
Opposition parties denounced the proposed changes as dangerous for democracy because they would have gotten rid of important checks and balances on executive power.
Spearheaded by the populist Five Star Movement, the biggest rival to Mr Renzi's Democratic party, the "No" campaign took advantage of the PM's declining popularity, a struggling economy and problems caused by tens of thousands of migrants arriving from Africa.

Looks like another referendum to become poorer, its becoming a common theme across the world

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Looks like another referendum to become poorer, its becoming a common theme across the world

Unless people such as yourself stop burying your heads in the sand, there will be a lot more of this in the future.

 

[warmleyseagull]

If Mr Renzi resigns, it could plunge Italy into political turmoil and cause economic instability in the struggling eurozone country.
The result is another blow to the European Union, which is struggling to overcome a number of crises and was keen for Mr Renzi to continue his reform drive.
Opposition parties denounced the proposed changes as dangerous for democracy because they would have gotten rid of important checks and balances on executive power.
Spearheaded by the populist Five Star Movement, the biggest rival to Mr Renzi's Democratic party, the "No" campaign took advantage of the PM's declining popularity, a struggling economy and problems caused by tens of thousands of migrants arriving from Africa.

Yup, that about sums it up. Add in the toxicity of most bank debt and the likely failure of at least a couple of them, and you have a recipe for a real big issue. TBH, Renzi's reforms were sensible but he irritated me with his posturing over Brexit - speaking alongside Hollande (also toast) and Merkel in a kind of cuddly 'Europeans together and let the British float off into the Atlantic' way. I hope 5SM/Northern League/ Mafia club together and get Italy to vote out of Euro, that;s a real banger compared to the squib of Brexit.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Seems like business as usual in Italy, its been in political chaos there for decades, nothing new.

If Italy bank do go down its bad news for us Brexit or no Brexit, the world still doesn't end at Dover much to the disappointment of the Little Englanders

No-one else stated that it would be good for our economy nor did anyone state the view about Dover etc. Why are you so prejudiced?

 

[cunning fergus]

Seems like business as usual in Italy, its been in political chaos there for decades, nothing new.

If Italy bank do go down its bad news for us Brexit or no Brexit, the world still doesn't end at Dover much to the disappointment of the Little Englanders

Begs the question why on earth would anyone want to jump into political and/or economic union with such a basket case?

Italy's debt problems are too big to bail out, the EU will need to come up with a number of different strategies to manage the resultant market volatility arising from this vote.

No doubt, this will include the breaking of EU rules on state bailouts as the banks' bond holders includes a large cohort of normal Italian households that use bank bonds for their pensions, and it would be political suicide for them to take a haircut.

So, expect the ECB to roll out a round of QE tomorrow............another rule breaker.

Business as usual, I should coco.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

And Renzi has gone....

Italy PM suffers heavy defeat - exit poll http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38204189

 

[cunning fergus]

Looks like another referendum to become poorer, its becoming a common theme across the world

In light of the result the only group getting poorer at the moment are those holding euros.

Then again currencies rise and fall such is the reality of geo politics and economic orthodoxy.

Proof if needed that no-one should use currency movements as a proxy for their own arguments arising from the consequences of democracy.

I'm sure you never did that in this debate did you........

 

[Baldseagull]

i wish you'd stop parroting out this mantra with clearly no understanding of the details. migrant workers that are young and earning above average or high incomes are indeed a net contributor to taxes. however migrant workers that arent earning so much, picking up unskilled or low paid skilled work are not contributing to taxes and may even be in receipt of tax credits. in a country with insufficient housing all migrants are increasing demand where there is no way for them to increase supply (unlike other virtuous cycles in the economy from immigration), and likewise they can only increase demand on public services until such time as central funded supply is increased (if ever in some areas). to put in harsher reality, French working in the City are a net contributor to economy, while Romanians working in Lincolnshire fields are not.

I agree that increased housing demand has pushed prices and rents up, and it is a problem, but that is not negative to the national debt. Increased revenue from stamp duties, and increased tax take from landlords is beneficial to the treasury.
Of course not all are net contributors, but not all Romanian farm labourers are costing more in provision of services than they are contributing in income tax and VAT on their purchases either.

 

[Baldseagull]

Oh dear, there's so much of real politic that you don't understand.
Temporary economic problems when we tell the EU to do one - yes, we leavers all recognised that will probably be the case. Didn't some prat called Cameroon or something similar put this in his Project Fear manifesto?
The Tory austerity, on the other hand, was **** the poor, but make sure that the bankers, the driving force behind our virtual economy (we don't have a real one any more) are OK, and there's always some good jobs for us when our political career goes tits up. Expect some nice cushy money spinning sinecures to pop up for Cameramoan and his cronies soon......................

I am so lucky to have the wise GT49er to educate me.

 

[The Rivet]

Another nail in the EU coffin and another craw in the throat of the EU federalists. This slow collapse of the discredited idiot union is most pleasurable. As is the pain from some posting on here. Beautiful.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

There is only so much Italians will take before they flip. They have had enough of the EU, austerity and migration. We have people in Southern Italy just about being able to put food on their table, they get hardly any financial help from their government, but then they see hundreds of thousands of migrants appearing on their doorsteps being homed, fed and these stupid politicians wonder why there is sodding backlash across Europe.

 

[5ways]

uncontrolled? that was the key point........since this thread started nearly 300,000 more people will be in the UK,that puts pressure on with immediate effect,not all will contribute straight away..some a little,some never.

Remember however that: immigrants pay in to the economy and help pay down the national debt. Immigrants are young and do not use many social services. Immigrants subsidise your services. Immigrants staff sectors of the UK economy that natives won't. Immigrants very often highly skilled. Immigrants are essential to the running of the NHS (nurses, doctors, cleaners etc).

 

[Soulman]

Remember however that: immigrants pay in to the economy and help pay down the national debt. Immigrants are young and do not use many social services. Immigrants subsidise your services. Immigrants staff sectors of the UK economy that natives won't. Immigrants very often highly skilled. Immigrants are essential to the running of the NHS (nurses, doctors, cleaners etc).

Most know the benefits of some immigrants, but net immigration of people the size of Coventry year on year, is this sustainable, is the infrastructure good enough to take it. Of course it is not. It stands to reason if you are letting this amount in then more "doctors, nurses" etc will be needed.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Another nail in the EU coffin and another craw in the throat of the EU federalists. This slow collapse of the discredited idiot union is most pleasurable. As is the pain from some posting on here. Beautiful.

You enjoy the pain of others? Says an awful lot about you.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

You enjoy the pain of others? Says an awful lot about you.

Why do you stick up for the European Union? It has vested huge pain on the people of Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal. But maybe they don't count as they are 'only' brown skinned?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Why do you stick up for the European Union? It has vested huge pain on the people of Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal. But maybe they don't count as they are 'only' brown skinned?

Obviously hasn't seen or spoken to anyone from Southern Italy where my mum's family are from. How anyone can support the EU is beyond me. A big contributor to Italy's problems is the EU itself.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Obviously hasn't seen or spoken to anyone from Southern Italy where my mum's family are from. How anyone can support the EU is beyond me. A big contributor to Italy's problems is the EU itself.

I spoke at length last night to my cousin's wife, she is from Milan. She is not terribly political although she is a conservationist. Even she stated that there is something terribly wrong in her country. She is quite enthusiastic about EU ideals, but understands that the wheels seem to be coming off. 36% youth unemployment. Unbelievable.

I for one will not rejoice at the pain of others, specially economic hardship which in this continent has mostly been caused by the Euro. But I am also sorry for those who have believed in the EU and support its ideas. I have sympathy as it's hard to see a dream die. The rejoicing will come when the EU's leaders finally realise it's time for a huge shift to a looser model of economic cooperation and little political interference. My worry is that it will be too late.

 

[Soulman]

From June 2016.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/uk.mob...dUKKCN0YX0A2?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I spoke at length last night to my cousin's wife, she is from Milan. She is not terribly political although she is a conservationist. Even she stated that there is something terribly wrong in her country. She is quite enthusiastic about EU ideals, but understands that the wheels seem to be coming off. 36% youth unemployment. Unbelievable.

I for one will not rejoice at the pain of others, specially economic hardship which in this continent has mostly been caused by the Euro. But I am also sorry for those who have believed in the EU and support its ideas. I have sympathy as it's hard to see a dream die. The rejoicing will come when the EU's leaders finally realise it's time for a huge shift to a looser model of economic cooperation and little political interference. My worry is that it will be too late.

What's annoyed Southern Italians the most is that they have paid in the system, they can't take hardly anything out and yet hundreds of thousands of migrants keep pouring in to their country, and in some cases migrants are being looked after better than there own people.