[Politics] Brexit

[narly101]

Belfast High Court Reject Brexit Challenge - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37796836

This is quite an important piece of news which everyone seems to have missed. This was possibly the last option that we had as a nation which could have imposed a parliamentary vote on Brexit, but has now been rejceted by the High Court. Some of you may have noticed that, on the news of this rejection, sterling has fallen again. With the economy slowing to 0.5% growth from 1.0% on the previous quarter, tenants seeing rates rising 2.3%, Unilever imposing increased costs on products to all supermarkets, fuel nearing £1.20 a litre, and the very large possibility that the UK economy will fall behind France to put us 6th in the world by the end of the year, it doesn't bode well for us. With the BBA warning that large financial corporations are likely to leave if the trade passporting cannot be assured when we brexit, this would mean if the Financial services indufstry collapses we could potentially lose c£66bn in taxes. Puts the £19bn we pay to the EU in perspective doesn't it.

May we live in interesting times.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

This is quite an important piece of news which everyone seems to have missed. This was possibly the last option that we had as a nation which could have imposed a parliamentary vote on Brexit, but has now been rejceted by the High Court. Some of you may have noticed that, on the news of this rejection, sterling has fallen again. With the economy slowing to 0.5% growth from 1.0% on the previous quarter, tenants seeing rates rising 2.3%, Unilever imposing increased costs on products to all supermarkets, fuel nearing £1.20 a litre, and the very large possibility that the UK economy will fall behind France to put us 6th in the world by the end of the year, it doesn't bode well for us. With the BBA warning that large financial corporations are likely to leave if the trade passporting cannot be assured when we brexit, this would mean if the Financial services indufstry collapses we could potentially lose c£66bn in taxes. Puts the £19bn we pay to the EU in perspective doesn't it.

May we live in interesting times.

My you're a cheerful fellow.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

This is quite an important piece of news which everyone seems to have missed. This was possibly the last option that we had as a nation which could have imposed a parliamentary vote on Brexit, but has now been rejceted by the High Court. Some of you may have noticed that, on the news of this rejection, sterling has fallen again. With the economy slowing to 0.5% growth from 1.0% on the previous quarter, tenants seeing rates rising 2.3%, Unilever imposing increased costs on products to all supermarkets, fuel nearing £1.20 a litre, and the very large possibility that the UK economy will fall behind France to put us 6th in the world by the end of the year, it doesn't bode well for us. With the BBA warning that large financial corporations are likely to leave if the trade passporting cannot be assured when we brexit, this would mean if the Financial services indufstry collapses we could potentially lose c£66bn in taxes. Puts the £19bn we pay to the EU in perspective doesn't it.

May we live in interesting times.

Your first figure is wrong which made me reluctant to read on. Economic growth in the previous quarter was 0.7 % not 1 %. The prediction was 0.3 % so the headline number exceeded expectations.
"There is little evidence of a pronounced effect in the immediate aftermath of the vote," the ONS said (source:BBC)

That said, I am not drawing positive conclusions from the numbers as it is more important to analyze the breakdown and the trend within that breakdown. You simply can't conclude much at all from a list of headline numbers and particularly when your selectively quoted data is actually incorrect.

 

[sir albion]

This is quite an important piece of news which everyone seems to have missed. This was possibly the last option that we had as a nation which could have imposed a parliamentary vote on Brexit, but has now been rejceted by the High Court. Some of you may have noticed that, on the news of this rejection, sterling has fallen again. With the economy slowing to 0.5% growth from 1.0% on the previous quarter, tenants seeing rates rising 2.3%, Unilever imposing increased costs on products to all supermarkets, fuel nearing £1.20 a litre, and the very large possibility that the UK economy will fall behind France to put us 6th in the world by the end of the year, it doesn't bode well for us. With the BBA warning that large financial corporations are likely to leave if the trade passporting cannot be assured when we brexit, this would mean if the Financial services indufstry collapses we could potentially lose c£66bn in taxes. Puts the £19bn we pay to the EU in perspective doesn't it.

May we live in interesting times.

Small price to pay for independence me old mucker

 

[Diego Napier]

You may be right about people being blinded by their faith. It is an interesting question which comes first; the belief (from gut instinct) then an attempt to fit the facts after the event or the reverse. It is the reason I stay out of the day to day debate as the reality is that there will be good and bad news from now on and using it like a goal in a football match to justify one's own view is pointless. There are a lot of moving parts in an economy so whether the Nissan deal or the value of the pound is good or bad doesn't tell us anything.

I agree with you about the daily bun fight with proponents scrapping over ever scrap of the latest economic indicators, the ramifications of brexit are years if not decades away. Your analogy about the football match serve to illustrate how lots of peoples' mind set is driven by visceral emotions whether they're supporting their chosen political party or football team. It's good or bad, win or lose, there is no middle ground. A lot of the blame for this must be shouldered by our politicians and most of our press

The part of your post that intrigued me was the implication in your questions that there is considerable doubt as to whether people understand the political and legal systems in which we live. It kind of makes me think that you are as guilty of fitting facts to your beliefs as the next person. The implications of your assertion are startling as it would mean there is no democratic mandate. I hadn't previously given this much thought but you clearly have and just like in pre full suffrage times you seem content living under an ever more complex and opaque (because it is not understood) system. This may explain the rather contemptuous Remain attitude that Leave voters were actually too stupid to entrust with such a decision. I may be being a little unfair of course as I shouldn't generalise from your views to the entire Remain side. Restricting it to you though and as you clearly think about the issues Im not sure I believe that you would be in favour of such a lack of democratic mandate if someone turned up on your door 40 years ago trying to sell it.

I believe that a sizeable proportion of the populace don't understand the political system. I also believe that the political system doesn't deliver what another sizeable chunk of people believe (some examples of why not in #19852!). I'm quite sanguine about being part of the "ever more complex and opaque" EU as firstly I don't think that UK Democracy delivers any greater benefit and secondly, the more that can be done to engender a global state, move us away from our tribal past and focus on human rights, the better.

I do think you have a point though about the EU. I am not entirely sure I understand how it operates and I certainly don't feel enfranchised by its processes.By contrast, I do feel I understand the U.K. System of local and national democratic elections and independent legal system interpreting parliamentary law in a purely U.K. context.

My belief is that you may understand how democracy works but that it doesn't deliver any material benefit to you. The very best that you can achieve in very select circumstances is to dismiss an elected representative or party some years after they have disappointed you over a specific matter, regardless of how well they've done on others, providing that the dismissable offence is obvious.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37799235

Price rises could start hitting hard when companies refresh their product lines

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ustomers-prices-rise-us-dollar-pound-sterling

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...s-marmite-price-up-unilever-fall-pound-brexit

 

[Diego Napier]

I can't speak for @pastafarian but I can't quite grasp the comparisons you are making. Perhaps 'fairness' should be substituted for 'accountability.' If there are a group of people deciding which pub to go to then the fairest way to
decide is a show of hands and majority wins. That, in essence is democracy. If you lose then you gracefully accept the result because you hope that if you win next time then the other side will accept that result. Everyone has a stake in the system
win or lose hence the outcry when Donald Trump refused to confirm his acceptance of this system.
Religion has no such fairness, just belief. One is either a believer or an unbeliever in a truth. There is no truth in democracy just an attempt at fairness.

Whether you substitute fairness for accountability or not, democracy is still a belief system. Fairness? Some people think that Communism is fairer than Democracy. Some people think that proportional representation is fairer than first past the post. Some people think that it would be fairer if over sixteens or people in prison had the vote. Some people think that it's not fair that in 10% of electoral wards votes can be 30 times more effective than others. Some people think that it's not fair that votes aren't weighted depending on the perceptiveness of the voter. I think it's fair to say that some people put more thought into which pub they'll visit than for whom they should vote.

The outcry about Donald Trump is not from his supporters.

It's your belief that Democracy is fairer than religion but it's not mine. Both purport to deliver on their promises.

 

[Brighton Mod]

I agree with you about the daily bun fight with proponents scrapping over ever scrap of the latest economic indicators, the ramifications of brexit are years if not decades away. Your analogy about the football match serve to illustrate how lots of peoples' mind set is driven by visceral emotions whether they're supporting their chosen political party or football team. It's good or bad, win or lose, there is no middle ground. A lot of the blame for this must be shouldered by our politicians and most of our press



I believe that a sizeable proportion of the populace don't understand the political system. I also believe that the political system doesn't deliver what another sizeable chunk of people believe (some examples of why not in #19852!). I'm quite sanguine about being part of the "ever more complex and opaque" EU as firstly I don't think that UK Democracy delivers any greater benefit and secondly, the more that can be done to engender a global state, move us away from our tribal past and focus on human rights, the better.



My belief is that you may understand how democracy works but that it doesn't deliver any material benefit to you. The very best that you can achieve in very select circumstances is to dismiss an elected representative or party some years after they have disappointed you over a specific matter, regardless of how well they've done on others, providing that the dismissable offence is obvious.

Article 50 has not yet been triggered.
The press and media have been incessant of their negative articles on Brexit and its possible outcome.
Brexit has served to provide a greater divide between the elite in our society and those who are on the outside.
The EUs economy is sliding exponentially into bankruptcy with no leadership from the EU, where's the news on Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy's economies?
Experts and their opinions have been discredited sine Brexit as the sword of damaclees ha failed to fall on our heads.
The government does not need to give a day by day statement and justification of its actions,the country voted for exit, the government of the day should deliver it.
Tony Blair, really.
We're leaving the EU, a smart move by the British people at the right time, roll on the day.

 

[Soulman]

Article 50 has not yet been triggered.
The press and media have been incessant of their negative articles on Brexit and its possible outcome.
Brexit has served to provide a greater divide between the elite in our society and those who are on the outside.
The EUs economy is sliding exponentially into bankruptcy with no leadership from the EU, where's the news on Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy's economies?
Experts and their opinions have been discredited sine Brexit as the sword of damaclees ha failed to fall on our heads.
The government does not need to give a day by day statement and justification of its actions,the country voted for exit, the government of the day should deliver it.
Tony Blair, really.
We're leaving the EU, a smart move by the British people at the right time, roll on the day.

Yes roll on the day.

 

[Soulman]

We need a HARD BREXIT: JCB boss brands EU's single market ‘HARMFUL for British business’
ONE of Britain’s biggest business owners has called for a Hard Brexit, claiming the European Union’s single market regulations are harmful for the British economy.
Lord Anthony Bamford, chairman of manufacturing giant JCB, said yesterday “hidden barriers” such as EU red tape “proves that this single market has not created a level playing field”.

He urged the Government to secure an exit deal that would allow Britain to become a “truly global trading nation”.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/726074/anthony-bamford-brexit-jcb-single-market-cbi

Well said that man.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

[MENTION=16192]Diego Napier[/MENTION], thank you for your two detailed replies. I think we will have to agree to disagree on the benefits of U.K. democracy and particularly as compared to religion. For all it's faults our democracy gives an equal voting right to men and women and allows ordinary people the opportunity to express a choice. I was inordinately proud to exercise my vote when we last returned from abroad. I can't be as sanguine as you about the opaqueness of the EU because I see it as a project driven by the banks and other multinationals to drive down labour costs. Of course these characters are happy to dilute our democratic rights. I am uncomfortable about losing rights faught for by our ancestors and in particular the struggles to abolish the land owning qualification and that faught by the suffragettes. Finally, I dont think the 'perceptiveness' of individual voters is important. This is often in the eye of the beholder anyway but more importantly the principle is established of equality and this gives everyone a stake in our society. You see this as tribal whereas I see it as community.
Nice to hear your perspective. Your posts are amongst the most interesting I have read on here for a while.

 

[studio150]

We need a HARD BREXIT: JCB boss brands EU's single market ‘HARMFUL for British business’
ONE of Britain’s biggest business owners has called for a Hard Brexit, claiming the European Union’s single market regulations are harmful for the British economy.
Lord Anthony Bamford, chairman of manufacturing giant JCB, said yesterday “hidden barriers” such as EU red tape “proves that this single market has not created a level playing field”.

He urged the Government to secure an exit deal that would allow Britain to become a “truly global trading nation”.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/726074/anthony-bamford-brexit-jcb-single-market-cbi

Well said that man.

I think on the Comments section stillmeagain found the real reason for these comments, by stating:

I'm also sure his opposition to the EU is all purely on high principles and has nothing to do with the fact that JCB were fined millions for breaking antitrust laws.



Still no doubt you will call him a liar as well (without any validation)

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...nt-iag-cuts-profit-outlook-in-tough-environm/

Good news, keep those pesky foreigners out and who wants to see the rest of the world anyway, it's not Great Britain is it?

 

[beorhthelm]

This is quite an important piece of news which everyone seems to have missed. This was possibly the last option that we had as a nation which could have imposed a parliamentary vote on Brexit, but has now been rejceted by the High Court. Some of you may have noticed that, on the news of this rejection, sterling has fallen again. With the economy slowing to 0.5% growth from 1.0% on the previous quarter, tenants seeing rates rising 2.3%, Unilever imposing increased costs on products to all supermarkets, fuel nearing £1.20 a litre, and the very large possibility that the UK economy will fall behind France to put us 6th in the world by the end of the year, it doesn't bode well for us. With the BBA warning that large financial corporations are likely to leave if the trade passporting cannot be assured when we brexit, this would mean if the Financial services indufstry collapses we could potentially lose c£66bn in taxes. Puts the £19bn we pay to the EU in perspective doesn't it.

May we live in interesting times.

whats not interesting is raising about 10 points and nearly all of them factually incorrect (no idea on the tenants rate rises, though what this has to do with Brexit is another question)

 

[portslade seagull]

whats not interesting is raising about 10 points and nearly all of them factually incorrect (no idea on the tenants rate rises, though what this has to do with Brexit is another question)

Just another load of waffle which they so desperately try to link to Brexit

 

[studio150]

No you were not... here is the post you replied to, why lie. Post 1809

Quote Originally Posted by Green Cross Code Man View Post
Out of interest, did they show his chancellor saying there would need to be an emergency budget and instant tax rises?
Not that I recall

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/14831180.Conservative_councillor_set_for_discipline_hearing_for_labelling_council_leader_a_liar/


Maybe such disciplinary action should be introduced on NSC what do you think? Or are you still too stupid to see your error.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

[MENTION=16192]Diego Napier[/MENTION], thank you for your two detailed replies. I think we will have to agree to disagree on the benefits of U.K. democracy and particularly as compared to religion. For all it's faults our democracy gives an equal voting right to men and women and allows ordinary people the opportunity to express a choice. I was inordinately proud to exercise my vote when we last returned from abroad. I can't be as sanguine as you about the opaqueness of the EU because I see it as a project driven by the banks and other multinationals to drive down labour costs. Of course these characters are happy to dilute our democratic rights. I am uncomfortable about losing rights faught for by our ancestors and in particular the struggles to abolish the land owning qualification and that faught by the suffragettes. Finally, I dont think the 'perceptiveness' of individual voters is important. This is often in the eye of the beholder anyway but more importantly the principle is established of equality and this gives everyone a stake in our society. You see this as tribal whereas I see it as community.
Nice to hear your perspective. Your posts are amongst the most interesting I have read on here for a while.

Thanks you two for the best of exchanges. NSC at its very best. NB reminded me of what I knew; that among the others there will be plenty of Leavers who have the highest of motives. DN cheered me up; his views are close to mine, expressed more eloquently.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Christianity promises that if you lead a good life you will be rewarded after death.
&
That's blind faith for you.

Are these two lines linked in any way?

 

[The Clamp]

Thanks for that very enlightening.

I wouldn't take Pastafarian's analysis of a tongue in cheek post by me too much to heart. Pasta is a man who spends his every waking moment on here from about 05:00 to 02:00, every single day and spends most of that time chasing other users across the board and following his odd little agenda. I think he's gone a bit snow blind.

 

[The Clamp]

It is not silly at all. Suggestions that remainers were bedwetters, traitors and balls-free wimps floated round, especially in the early days but I really don't recall anyone ever suggesting that 17m Englishmen were racists, in spite of one poster's loony claims that it happened. The 'example' you pasted was chronically weak - for right or wrong I took The Clamp's reference to brown foreigners to be a reaction to Farage's June billboard showing middle-eastern gents heading towards us (a billboard the poster with the loony claims presumably supported, being an enthusiastic UKIP supporter).

Are you trying to convince us you belong to some sort of victimhood cult?

Correct interpretation, pastafarian has made that ONE post the axis of his weird obsession with me and my postings from the second I wrote it, despite the fact he comprehensively misunderstood it. He's a bit of a knobber.