[Politics] Brexit

[Simster]

Thank Big Gully, I'm glad I got the chance to talk to Bruce Millan about Regional Policy 24 years ago but nothing beats talking to a real expert on EU matters like you.

Big Gully is a patronising expert on everything (in his own mind). You really should know that by now.

 

[East Preston Gull]

The problem is when you get LEAVE politicians telling the electorate we can have all the benefits of the Single Market AND control our immigration. At that point the goalposts shift.

The Leave speakers at the debates I attended stated that leaving the EU meant we would no longer have access to the single market.

I really wish more people had attended a few debates and listened to the true faces of both sides. The media whores and pantomime dames for remain and leave have caused all this hullabaloo.

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[BigGully]

Big Gully is a patronising expert on everything (in his own mind). You really should know that by now.

That made me laugh .........

 

[pastafarian]

Eh, no it didn't!?

It meant we might give up membership of the single market.
It meant we might we might be able to go forth and seek trade markets by ourselves.

"...the positions were crystal clear..."

Have you been living in some kind of alternate reality or something?! The Brexit position has never been crystal clear, it still isn't four months on!

leave were very clear, we should leave the single market as we would be able to look for other markets on our own within our own terms,something you cant do as members
remain were very clear,they considered this a bad idea and we should remain in the collective membership of the single market as its better to seek trade as a group not an individual.

you had to be asleep to not know these two positions

explain how its possible to remain members of the single market and still go off on your own and define your own trade agreements,

 

[Gwylan]

Eh, no it didn't!?

It meant we might give up membership of the single market.
It meant we might we might be able to go forth and seek trade markets by ourselves.

"...the positions were crystal clear..."

Have you been living in some kind of alternate reality or something?! The Brexit position has never been crystal clear, it still isn't four months on!

It's clear that pastafarian is living in some sort of strange world. Here's the Conservative manifesto on the EU referendum "We are clear about what we want from Europe. We say: yes to the Single Market. Yes to turbocharging free trade." Only in pastafarian's world does 'yes' to the single market mean 'no'

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The remain camp was very very clear before the vote
they believed voting to leave with the consequences of ending free movement, ending membership of the single market and removing ourselves from the ECJ was a bad bad idea
leavers thought otherwise.

what cant you grasp about this.

What I can't grasp is your claim that everyone who voted Leave believed and made full allowance for everything the Remain side told them before 23 June. As the Out campaign seemed at times to consist entirely of screaming "Liar!" "Project Fear!" and "I don't believe in experts!" at anything the Remain side said this doesn't seem very likely. (Sorry. Correct that. It's utterly unbelievable.)

 

[pb21]

leave were very clear, we should leave the single market as we would be able to look for other markets on our own within our own terms,something you cant do as members
remain were very clear,they considered this a bad idea and we should remain in the collective membership of the single market as its better to seek trade as a group not an individual.

you had to be asleep to not know these two positions

explain how its possible to remain members of the single market and still go off on your own and define your own trade agreements,

Leave were very clear, we could leave the single market and we could be able to look for other markets on our own within our own terms.

Just like how we could spend £350 million pounds extra on the NHS if we left the EU.

It seems like they hooked you in.

 

[cirC]

This article had all the remoaners in its sights.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ats-will-never-bully-the-british-people-into/

sums up the so called Nottinghill elite.

 

[pastafarian]

It's clear that pastafarian is living in some sort of strange world. Here's the Conservative manifesto on the EU referendum "We are clear about what we want from Europe. We say: yes to the Single Market. Yes to turbocharging free trade." Only in pastafarian's world does 'yes' to the single market mean 'no'

why not post the whole of the page that line is taken from to put it into full context.
The page that is all about the party position on what a renegotiated UK and EU will hopefully look like.
The page that says ultimately though these ideals will be decided by the people in a straight in/out referendum

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Big Gully is a patronising expert on everything (in his own mind). You really should know that by now.

That's very unfair. Big Gully is nowhere nearly as patronising at Pastafarian.

 

[pastafarian]

What I can't grasp is your claim that everyone who voted Leave believed and made full allowance for everything the Remain side told them before 23 June. As the Out campaign seemed at times to consist entirely of screaming "Liar!" "Project Fear!" and "I don't believe in experts!" at anything the Remain side said this doesn't seem very likely. (Sorry. Correct that. It's utterly unbelievable.)

and i cant believe on the three issues i mentioned you still insist remainers and leavers didnt know the consequences of their vote

 

[pastafarian]

Leave were very clear, we could leave the single market and we could be able to look for other markets on our own within our own terms.

Just like how we could spend £350 million pounds extra on the NHS if we left the EU.

It seems like they hooked you in.

on the flip side did remain say we might stay in the single market, we might keep free movement. No of course not
all you are doing is trying to portray one side (i wonder which one) as not knowing what they were voting.

i see you didnt answer how is it possible to remain in the single market and also seek trade elsewhere on our own

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The Leave speakers at the debates I attended stated that leaving the EU meant we would no longer have access to the single market.

I really wish more people had attended a few debates and listened to the true faces of both sides. The media whores and pantomime dames for remain and leave have caused all this hullabaloo.

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I am sure you are right in saying that more people should have attended Leave rallies so they could hear what the speakers said. But the fact is, about 99% didn't. Anyway, according to Patafarian that didn't matter - every person who voted Leave did so after careful consideration of the facts and in the full knowledge that their tick in the box would lead to us exiting the single market in order to reach trading agreements with more dynamic world economies.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

i see you didnt answer how is it possible to remain in the single market and also seek trade elsewhere on our own

Oh come on. Leave supporter after Leave supporter was on here saying that the EU would be absolutely GAGGING to do single market membership deals with us after we left. Germany and its automakers would be telling every other member what to do. Claims to the contrary were just more examples of Project Fear.

In the week when the ruling party of Walonia has unstitched the EU Canada deal those claims have to go down as yet more misleading nonsense from the Brexit campaign.

 

[pb21]

on the flip side did remain say we might stay in the single market, we might keep free movement. No of course not
all you are doing is trying to portray one side (i wonder which one) as not knowing what they were voting.

i see you didnt answer how is it possible to remain in the single market and also seek trade elsewhere on our own

One side was voting for the status quo, one was voting to leave the status quo. By leaving the status quo, new options would be potentially possible. Many were put forward as suggestions; we could leave the single market, lets give the NHS £350 million per week, we could do that, we may do this, we may do that, we could keep this bit, we might get rid of this bit, ad infinitum .

None of these ideas were concrete though, there was no Brexit manifesto, there still isn't.

In addition the reason I didn't answer your question is because it has absolutely nothing to do with the point I am making!

If pigs could fly, would they fly to Vietnam?

 

[The Clamp]

One side was voting for the status quo, one was voting to leave the status quo. By leaving the status quo, new options would be potentially possible. Many were put forward as suggestions; we could leave the single market, lets give the NHS £350 million per week, we could do that, we may do this, we may do that, we could keep this bit, we might get rid of this bit, ad infinitum .

None of these ideas were concrete though, there was no Brexit manifesto, there still isn't.

In addition the reason I didn't answer your question is because it has absolutely nothing to do with the point I am making!

If pigs could fly, would they fly to Vietnam?

The chap is utterly obsessed with whether or not people answer his questions. I get the feeling he isn't listened to much at home.

 

[Hamilton]

Theresa May can't even make a decision on whether or where we should have a third runway. Doesn't bode that well for future major decisions. Shilly shalling around. Is she up to making tough decisions, or does she just like to sound like she's up to them?

 

[Icy Gull]

Theresa May can't even make a decision on whether or where we should have a third runway. Doesn't bode that well for future major decisions. Shilly shalling around. Is she up to making tough decisions, or does she just like to sound like she's up to them?

Hasn't this shilly shallying on Heathrow's third runway being going on for about a decade, harsh to suddenly blame May.

 

[Hamilton]

Hasn't this shilly shallying on Heathrow's third runway being going on for about a decade, harsh to suddenly blame May.

Not really. She's been at the table and privy to all the conversations and evidence for the past circa 6 years. Get on with it. More delays than a Southern service!

 

[beorhthelm]

Leave were very clear, we could leave the single market

tell you who was very clear about the consequences of voting Leave - the Remain campaign. they made it perfectly clear you cant just vote to leave and expect nothing to change, the benefits of the single market would go. no one can say the public werent informed on the impact of voting to leave.