[Politics] Brexit

[beorhthelm]

No need for the name-calling but I hope it made you feel better. I actually volunteered the point that Cameron announced the referendum - apparently off the cuff - before the 2015 election because he was worried about the fate of some of his MPs in the light of the UKIP growth. But we need to keep this in perspective. UKIP's result in the 2015 election was impressive - one in eight voters voted for them but that doesn't actually represent the "huge pressure" others claim - any more than the success of the LibDems in the election before (6.8m votes and nearly a quarter of the popular vote) represented an even more massive call for pro-Europeanism.

off the cuff? you've been living in a box for over a decade, EU membership has been an issue ever since Maastricht, and really became a problem after Lisbon. it wasnt just some impromptu decision, but the result of a festering problem in the heart of our politics: who governs us, Westminister or Brussels? its really insulting to casually dismiss 12% of voters, it does represent a substantial pressure to address the issue. the fact about 3m more people turned out to vote either way also shows its a important issue.

 

[daveinprague]

Rubbish.

Most Czechs, and other nationals that I I have spoken to, at work, and socially think its barmy.

 

[beorhthelm]

Not everyone will... this year's British Nobel prizewinner said this about Brexit this week: "It is a very stupid, narrow-minded decision and will have disastrous long-term effects on science in the UK... I feel strongly about Brexit and do not wish to be associated with a country which is so insular and narrow-minded." He added that even if he was working in the UK at the moment the decision would have had him job-hunting immediately. Referring to his passport he said that if the UK does not change its mind he will not renew it "and may even renounce my British citizenship".

One guesses that the "change of mind" he mentions would be covered by a decision to remain in the single market with the associated free movement.

I await a comment from one of NSC's Brexiteers than the Nobel prizewinner is clearly a traitorous idiot to whom we should say good riddance. Hey-ho.

what you're saying is, you hold the opinion of one man who left the country and taken citizenship elsewhere in higher regard than the 17 million that live here. clearly he has strong views fomr his heritage, but his parents found a welcome here before the EU and would do so today. opposing EU rule and wanting to embrace trade with the whole world does not make us insular or narrow minded.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Most Czechs, and other nationals that I I have spoken to, at work, and socially think its barmy.

Perhaps they are just being polite.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Whoosh!

Read my post again. Tell me where I said only liberals were in favour of staying?

Actually, I think you should read mine. You are missing my point. My earlier post compared UKIP and LibDem support in the past two general elections. You claimed that I was assuming that only UKIP voters would want out. I was no more doing that than claiming that only LibDem voters would vote in, which wasn't something you mentioned. I was simply drawing attention to the need to be even-handed. I am sorry if my wording was clumsy. Just for the record - not only 6.8m LibDems wanted to stay in, not only 3.9m Ukippers wanted to get out. Neither figure in itself represented "huge pressure" one way or the other.

 

[daveinprague]

Perhaps they are just being polite.

By laughing and think it was barmy? Ok mate

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Actually, I think you should read mine. You are missing my point. My earlier post compared UKIP and LibDem support in the past two general elections. You claimed that I was assuming that only UKIP voters would want out. I was no more doing that than claiming that only LibDem voters would vote in, which wasn't something you mentioned. I was simply drawing attention to the need to be even-handed. I am sorry if my wording was clumsy. Just for the record - not only 6.8m LibDems wanted to stay in, not only 3.9m Ukippers wanted to get out. Neither figure in itself represented "huge pressure" one way or the other.

The phrase you used:
'UKIP's result in the 2015 election was impressive - one in eight voters voted for them but that doesn't actually represent the "huge pressure" others claim'

You then with it up with people voting liberal etc. I accept that UKIP and the liberals are both diametrically opposite in terms of what they think about the EU. However you are ignoring a large enough portion of labour and Tory voters who also do not like the EU. That means huge pressure politically. Enough pressure, let's say, to win the referendum.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

By laughing and think it was barmy? Ok mate [emoji106]

Polite in that they were responding to prior knowledge of your delicate sensibilities! [emoji12]

 

[vegster]

The worst appears yet to come. HSBC expect the Pound to reach parity with the Euro next year and $1.10 with the Dollar by the end of 2017. Not good given our level of imports.

 

[pastafarian]

Not everyone will... this year's British Nobel prizewinner said this about Brexit this week: "It is a very stupid, narrow-minded decision and will have disastrous long-term effects on science in the UK... I feel strongly about Brexit and do not wish to be associated with a country which is so insular and narrow-minded." He added that even if he was working in the UK at the moment the decision would have had him job-hunting immediately. Referring to his passport he said that if the UK does not change its mind he will not renew it "and may even renounce my British citizenship".

One guesses that the "change of mind" he mentions would be covered by a decision to remain in the single market with the associated free movement.

I await a comment from one of NSC's Brexiteers than the Nobel prizewinner is clearly a traitorous idiot to whom we should say good riddance. Hey-ho.

Couldnt give a toss what he thinks.
If he decides to not renew his other passport as some sort of immature protest more fool him.

Its not as if it will cause him much hardship,when he flies over here to receive an award he probably only uses it to skip the queues at the airport but im sure he uses his american passport when he returns home to the states to continue his teaching job.

Its hard to say good riddance to an american citizen who lives and works in The USA.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The worst appears yet to come. HSBC expect the Pound to reach parity with the Euro next year and $1.10 with the Dollar by the end of 2017. Not good given our level of imports.

They made that claim in august. Nothing new here.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The phrase you used:
'UKIP's result in the 2015 election was impressive - one in eight voters voted for them but that doesn't actually represent the "huge pressure" others claim'

You then with it up with people voting liberal etc. I accept that UKIP and the liberals are both diametrically opposite in terms of what they think about the EU. However you are ignoring a large enough portion of labour and Tory voters who also do not like the EU. That means huge pressure politically. Enough pressure, let's say, to win the referendum.

Surely it works both ways. No even-handed person could say that the fact that 12.5% of voters in one election supported a strongly anti-EU party represented 'huge pressure' leave the EU and simultaneously ignore the fact that nearly twice the proportion - 23% - supported a strongly pro-EU party in another election. Both figures suggest either huge pressure, or no pressure. Neither of us took account of the inclinations of Labour, Tory, SNP, etc voters - the comparison was between the two parties at the "extremes".

I think we're sailing close to semantics here but for what it's worth, I think that of all the main parties in the UK, only UKIP and the LibDems have had honest and consistent policies on the EU over recent years.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Rubbish.

Oh I don't know, I know quite a few polite foreigners.

 

[daveinprague]

Polite in that they were responding to prior knowledge of your delicate sensibilities! [emoji12]

Keep trying mate

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Surely it works both ways. No even-handed person could say that the fact that 12.5% of voters in one election supported a strongly anti-EU party represented 'huge pressure' leave the EU and simultaneously ignore the fact that nearly twice the proportion - 23% - supported a strongly pro-EU party in another election. Both figures suggest either huge pressure, or no pressure. Neither of us took account of the inclinations of Labour, Tory, SNP, etc voters - the comparison was between the two parties at the "extremes".

I think we're sailing close to semantics here but for what it's worth, I think that of all the main parties in the UK, only UKIP and the LibDems have had honest and consistent policies on the EU over recent years.

Yes, I agree. The Europe question has messed both the Tories and labour up for far too long. I would say that amounts to huge pressure. I take what you're saying about it working both ways. The huge pressure was both ways and that's why we are now, still, arguing over the result and effects of that result.

 

[jakarta]

The worst appears yet to come. HSBC expect the Pound to reach parity with the Euro next year and $1.10 with the Dollar by the end of 2017. Not good given our level of imports.

When do they expect the plague of locusts to descend?

 

[Hastings gull]

When do they expect the plague of locusts to descend?

And bubonic plague to hit us. I have lost count over the years of economic forecasts that have been shown to be . . well, slightly off the mark

 

[kevo]

I notice Business leaders are getting pretty twitchy with all the hard Brexit talk too. Worrying.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37592866

The words hell and handcart spring to mind. This country will be screwed. What gets me is that half the population didn't vote for Brexit at all, yet their views are seemingly completely irrelevant. What a mess Cameron has left us in.

 

[GT49er]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37592866

The words hell and handcart spring to mind. This country will be screwed. What gets me is that half the population didn't vote for Brexit at all, yet their views are seemingly completely irrelevant. What a mess Cameron has left us in.

Half the population didn't vote for Cameron either. Almost two thirds of the population didn't vote for Thatcher. You're obviously missing the way elections and referenda work - the only votes that count are the ones that people have actually voted; if they could have voted, but didn't bother, then their 'votes' ARE completely irrelevant, by their own choice.

 

[alfredmizen]

Most Czechs, and other nationals that I I have spoken to, at work, and socially think its barmy.

Really ?

http://www.radio.cz/en/section/special/how-has-10-years-of-eu-membership-impacted-czech-society