[Politics] Brexit

[Soulman]

No apology needed, you're a fan of The Fall after all, which takes precedence over any of this tawdry nonsense on NSC.
[MENTION=26105]Soulman[/MENTION] and [MENTION=27983]Bas[/MENTION]hldir are 'Kippers and I respect their views. Whilst I'm no more likely to vote UKIP than you are, the party represents people who have been disenfranchised by mainstream politics.

I can't stand Farage, but he represents a safety valve in a democracy.


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Good post........

 

[jaghebby]

Pastafarian and BigGully have answered this quite succinctly. The people that pick fruit and veg, wherever they come from are entitled to the same employment rights as the rest of the working population. If that means we pay a higher but fairer price then that's what needs to happen.

Firstly, BigGully seems to suggest that I condone illegal practice that is not the case if its illegal the full weight of the law should be used against the perpetrators. Secondly, in an ideal world the price should be a fair price and no exploitation but unfortunately we don't live in a ideal world and I doubt Brexit will change much in this respect. I also don't suggest this is a good reason for migration but if Brexit is a success, and it is a big if, and our economy continues to grow then the continued economic growth and prosperity will be the key factor and driver for migration levels not whether or not we are in the EU. So in this respect many people who think Brexit might lead to a cut in immigration might be a tad disappointed, that's assuming Brexit is a success. Finally, lots of things "need" to happen like higher wages, more money spent on the NHS, better care for the elderly, more money on education, to build more houses, better transport, better pensions etc., etc the list goes on and I am sure the majority of the British electorate would agree wholeheartedly with this but here is the reason it won't happen - they will only agree to this if someone else pays for it!

 

[El Presidente]

Me neither but I'll have to disagree with you here about what he represents. He's created this myth that he's an outsider untainted by the usual political scandal. Similar in that respect to Corbyn, I guess. And that moustache looks ridiculous.

Agree with you in that Farage is a self serving charlatan of the highest order. He certainly is a career politician who has hoodwinked many into thinking he's a man of the people when he's a failed commodity broker in reality.

As for Corbyn, every time I see him I think 1970's polytechnic sociology lecturer. (Not that there's anything wrong being a FE/HE lecturer I hasten to add!)

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Pound hitting new post-Brexit 31 year lows against the $US at $1.2757

Lovely.....keep it coming.....the lower the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

So you're happy with GBP at a 31 year low against the USD. That's fine, but how far would it need to fall for it not to be ok in your view.

Absolutely delighted......keep it coming....lower and lower.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Firstly, BigGully seems to suggest that I condone illegal practice that is not the case if its illegal the full weight of the law should be used against the perpetrators. Secondly, in an ideal world the price should be a fair price and no exploitation but unfortunately we don't live in a ideal world and I doubt Brexit will change much in this respect. I also don't suggest this is a good reason for migration but if Brexit is a success, and it is a big if, and our economy continues to grow then the continued economic growth and prosperity will be the key factor and driver for migration levels not whether or not we are in the EU. So in this respect many people who think Brexit might lead to a cut in immigration might be a tad disappointed, that's assuming Brexit is a success. Finally, lots of things "need" to happen like higher wages, more money spent on the NHS, better care for the elderly, more money on education, to build more houses, better transport, better pensions etc., etc the list goes on and I am sure the majority of the British electorate would agree wholeheartedly with this but here is the reason it won't happen - they will only agree to this if someone else pays for it!

Most people on here are not arguing for cuts in immigration. They are asking for managed immigration via border controls and
perhaps a points and work visa based system. These things are not possible within the EU. If the economy expands and we
need more migrants then I have no problem with that. Why would I ? My grandparents were immigrants and I have lived and worked around the world including in places with high immigration and many different cultures. What these places have in common is that they were not places operating within an area of free movement of people of 500m and they were able to manage the system as suited their economy and society. The EU model is not used elsewhere and it is not the only way to operate a sensible and humane immigration policy. The pro EU lobby sometimes seems to make assumptions that their way is the only way when perhaps they need to travel a bit more and open their minds to other ideas.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Absolutely delighted......keep it coming....lower and lower.

Yeah hooray!

 

[The Clamp]

Most people on here are not arguing for cuts in immigration. They are asking for managed immigration via border controls and
perhaps a points and work visa based system. These things are not possible within the EU. If the economy expands and we
need more migrants then I have no problem with that. Why would I ? My grandparents were immigrants and I have lived and worked around the world including in places with high immigration and many different cultures. What these places have in common is that they were not places operating within an area of free movement of people of 500m and they were able to manage the system as suited their economy and society. The EU model is not used elsewhere and it is not the only way to operate a sensible and humane immigration policy. The pro EU lobby sometimes seems to make assumptions that their way is the only way when perhaps they need to travel a bit more and open their minds to other ideas.

We already have a PBS. It is allowed in the EU because we have had it for years . It's based on the Australian model.
Makes one wonder how many other things people assume about the EU that are simply untrue? Research, people, research.

 

[beorhthelm]

We already have a PBS. It is allowed in the EU because we have had it for years . It's based on the Australian model.
Makes one wonder how many other things people assume about the EU that are simply untrue? Research, people, research.

there is indeed a points system for immigration from outside the EU (EEA actually). this doesn't apply to anyone inside the EU. many people want to place some restriction around the 445m not from UK that currently have right to work in the UK. hope this helps you catch up with the debate.

 

[The Clamp]

there is indeed a points system for immigration from outside the EU (EEA actually). this doesn't apply to anyone inside the EU. many people want to place some restriction around the 445m not from UK that currently have right to work in the UK. hope this helps you catch up with the debate.

I'm well aware of that thank you. The point is we DO have a points based system. At present it doesn't include EU citizens because EU citizens have free movement, as is right and proper.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

We already have a PBS. It is allowed in the EU because we have had it for years . It's based on the Australian model.
Makes one wonder how many other things people assume about the EU that are simply untrue? Research, people, research.

I think you have misunderstood. My post in its entirety was referring to immigration from the EU.

 

[CHAPPERS]

SNP, Plaid Cyrmu and Greens seem to have completely lost patience with the Labour Party.

The countries of the United Kingdom face a spiralling political and economic crisis. At the top of the Conservative party, the narrow vote in favour of leaving the EU has now been interpreted as the pretext for a drastic cutting of ties with Europe, which would have dire economic results - and as an excuse for the most toxic rhetoric on immigration we have seen from any government in living memory.

This is a profoundly moral question which gets to the heart of what sort of country we think we live in. We will not tolerate the contribution of people from overseas to our NHS being called into question, or a new version of the divisive rhetoric of ‘British jobs for British workers’. Neither will we allow the people of these islands, no matter how they voted on June 23rd, to be presented as a reactionary, xenophobic mass whose only concern is somehow taking the UK back to a lost imperial age. At a time of increasing violence and tension, we will call out the actions of politicians who threaten to enflame those same things.

This is not a time for parties to play games, or meekly respect the tired convention whereby they do not break cover during each other’s conferences. It is an occasion for us to restate the importance of working together to resist the Tories’ toxic politics, and make the case for a better future for our people and communities. We will do this by continuing to work and campaign with the fierce sense of urgency this political moment demands.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

SNP, Plaid Cyrmu and Greens seem to have completely lost patience with the Labour Party.

The irony of nationalist parties misrepresenting Brexit as a vote for nationalism.
No thanks.

 

[CHAPPERS]

The irony of nationalist parties misrepresenting Brexit as a vote for nationalism.
No thanks.

The conservative party seems to be doing exactly the same.

 

[The Rivet]

Brexit will happen in whatever form, however it will mean the days of Brussels non-entities having power over us are limited. Whatever form it takes after that is debateable. Everyone now needs to support leaving to secure the best deal.

Will you support the efforts or fight against them?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Brexit will happen in whatever form, however it will mean the days of Brussels non-entities having power over us are limited. Whatever form it takes after that is debateable. Everyone now needs to support leaving to secure the best deal.

Will you support the efforts or fight against them?

I cannot get behind Leave when we see The Home Secretary pander to the extreme right and says firms may have to list foreign workers. For Christ sake, have we learned nothing from history? It is not only utterly repugnant but also incredibly stupid. We live in a globalised economy, as you leavers constantly reminded us, but now you're a sanctioning the public demonisation of the very people this country needs. It's this kind of crass right wing thinking which will lead to yet more racist attacks. So much for the tolerant British pluralist tradition. So you support this if you must but count me out.

 

[The Rivet]

I cannot get behind Leave when we see The Home Secretary pander to the extreme right and says firms may have to list foreign workers. For Christ sake, have we learned nothing from history? It is not only utterly repugnant but also incredibly stupid. We live in a globalised economy, as you leavers constantly reminded us, but now you're a sanctioning the public demonisation of the very people this country needs. It's this kind of crass right wing thinking which will lead to yet more racist attacks. So much for the tolerant British pluralist tradition. So you support this if you must but count me out.

You of course have a choice. I wasn't gloating just asking how you will react. Thanks for your contribution.

 

[The Rivet]

Newsnight should be subject to strenuous examination. It's awful sometimes with the inbuilt BBC bias. Grubby at the very least.

 

[pastafarian]

I cannot get behind Leave when we see The Home Secretary pander to the extreme right and says firms may have to list foreign workers. For Christ sake, have we learned nothing from history? It is not only utterly repugnant but also incredibly stupid. We live in a globalised economy, as you leavers constantly reminded us, but now you're a sanctioning the public demonisation of the very people this country needs. It's this kind of crass right wing thinking which will lead to yet more racist attacks. So much for the tolerant British pluralist tradition. So you support this if you must but count me out.

seems quite a sensible idea.
If the data is collected and compared correctly you could ask questions why does a tech firm in nottingham need to source more skilled workers from abroad than a tech firm in the same industry in another part of the country.You could ask why are we lacking in these skills? What can be done about it?
Its only demonising if you want it to be. People like you consistently talk about big companies being more accountable to the locale where they are based. If they are disproportionately not employing local people and favouring cheap foreign labour...why? why shouldnt they be pressured into pumping some of their massive profits back into the local community with training schemes or some other resource that helps local unemployed?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The conservative party seems to be doing exactly the same.

It does but there is no irony in that as the Conservatives support the union.