[Politics] Brexit

[Deleted member 22389]

OK, to respond to your points, what, in particular do you not like being told to do by Brussels?

And what effect do you think leaving the EU will have on our borders (answer: none)

We can control migration from the EU once we leave.

 

[heathgate]

This vote is currently reflecting an IN majority, I wonder what will happen when the body of employed posters get home and perhaps browse NSC for the latest thread of interest. Will it swing away from IN?... or maybe stay on the current reflection of opinion.?

 

[narly101]

I was IN, then I went firmly OUT, but then after reading a very unbiased and incredibly interesting Economist article - if can find a link I'll post it - I am now firmly IN.

 

[narly101]

This one http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/02/graphics-britain-s-referendum-eu-membership

followed by this one http://www.economist.com/node/21695544

 

[Bladders]

Purely from a selfish short-termist point of view:

- I want to be able to work anywhere in the EU, there are some amazing cities and countries that I would like to spend extended periods of time in.
- I don't want my savings to be devalued compared to other currencies as the £ will inevitably drop significantly in the event of a brexit.
- I don't want to stand in the incredibly long 'rest of world' passport queues at European airports.

I'm willing to pay the £138 a year for the privileges of that membership.

The EU institution clearly has problems but you need strong leaders in that organisation to reform it, not hand more economic and political power to the other large EU nations.

Thats the rub really, I don't think anyone genuinely believes this is ever going to happen.

Those who want to stay in so far seem to have a selfish point of view about it, thats fair enough, I have no problem with those who put them selves and their families first (unlike some self loathers in other threads.)

Unfortunately for me, showing a passport more often and the like isn't really worth the cost of membership, and being controlled by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

 

[DumLum]

Not hard to really. The economy will shrink. Jobs will be lost. Simple really.

The people that will suffer the most will be the poorest.


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I think it's the shareholders that would lose out. That's why they want to stay in. How is it possible for the poor to be anymore worse off than they are right now?

 

[Hamilton]

So are you saying we'll no longer trade with Europe if we vote out?

Of course we will. It'll be a lot harder, we'll benefit less from being part of a free trade bloc. That'll push costs up and increase overheads. That depresses profit and puts pressure on jobs.

A decrease in jobs and corporate profits decreases tax revenues. That further depresses the economy making us a less attractive proposition for talent to come to (dirty immigration) or our own talent to stay (brain drain).

Of course, we've got an aging population- fact, which means pressure on services will increase, but we'll have less revenues to pay for it. We can certainly wave goodbye to that £23 million a day that some OP is referring to as the mathematics will show it doesn't exist.

Meanwhile, the Tories are going to lurch from right wing to left wing and turn the UK into a lentil eating collective where we all look after each other - I think not.


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[Notters]

So the EU makes are government spend money in Cornwall? and if it wasn't for the EU Cornwall would be a wasteland?

Sorry if I sound facetious, I'm not intending to be. Could you expand on it a bit?

No, the EU directly funds projects in deprived areas.

 

[studio150]

Was a probable in now a definite out. Nothing to do with other nationalities working here I would like to see freedom of movement for current EU countries continue with an out vote. However recourses are probably stretched to the max now. I'm voting against the big businesses who are just looking out for themselves not the public however they want to spin it.

And what control over EU Directives do big business have. Should your vote not be based on the workings of the EU.so what happens to employment levels with an out vote and big business prefer to be within the EU so they transfer operations to outside the UK.

 

[Hamilton]

I think it's the shareholders that would lose out. That's why they want to stay in. How is it possible for the poor to be anymore worse off than they are right now?

Because they won't have any work.

In fact, they will, but you'll see an increase in zero hours contracts and take home will go down. Coupled with the disgraceful dismantling of welfare in this country you'll see as many people in work, but working for less - so more sinking into poverty.

Not my subjective views. The objective views of economists based on the data available.


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[Bladders]

Of course we will. It'll be a lot harder, we'll benefit less from being part of a free trade bloc. That'll push costs up and increase overheads. That depresses profit and puts pressure on jobs.

A decrease in jobs and corporate profits decreases tax revenues. That further depresses the economy making us a less attractive proposition for talent to come to (dirty immigration) or our own talent to stay (brain drain).

Of course, we've got an aging population- fact, which means pressure on services will increase, but we'll have less revenues to pay for it. We can certainly wave goodbye to that £23 million a day that some OP is referring to as the mathematics will show it doesn't exist.

Meanwhile, the Tories are going to lurch from right wing to left wing and turn the UK into a lentil eating collective where we all look after each other - I think not.


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The free trade bloc is what it should have stayed at.

You think that Europe and the UK will spite each other by putting huge tariffs on imports/exports if we vote out ?

Who's going to benefit from that?

In or out trade will still happen, its in no ones interest to mess that up.

 

[Bladders]

No, the EU directly funds projects in deprived areas.

With who's money?

 

[heathgate]

Because they won't have any work.

In fact, they will, but you'll see an increase in zero hours contracts and take home will go down. Coupled with the disgraceful dismantling of welfare in this country you'll see as many people in work, but working for less - so more sinking into poverty.

Not my subjective views. The objective views of economists based on the data available.


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How ever you dress it up, you are still voting based on forecasts, guesses, opinions, views, reports, assumptions,.......... in other words subjective.

 

[Bladders]

How ever you dress it up, you are still voting based on forecasts, guesses, opinions, views, reports, assumptions,.......... in other words subjective.

...........just to add to that it also sounds like @Hamilton is voting in cause he thinks the EU will keep control of the mean Tories.

 

[Hamilton]

The free trade bloc is what it should have stayed at.

You think that Europe and the UK will spite each other by putting huge tariffs on imports/exports if we vote out ?

Who's going to benefit from that?

In or out trade will still happen, its in no ones interest to mess that up.

Yes. Of course they will. This is about nations looking after their interests. Our interests are better off served by working within the EU.

If you think there won't be trade restrictions then you are wrong. There will be. It's called self interest. Most EU leaders have already made that point clear. We are one of the worlds largest economies because we benefit from being in the EU. It's not an exclusive issue.

Out of interest, why do you want out if you feel the whole 'jobs' issue is horseshit? How do you see our economy growing substantially and what evidence can you point to that proves your point.


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[Hamilton]

...........just to add to that it also sounds like @Hamilton is voting in cause he thinks the EU will keep control of the mean Tories.

Hardly. But bless you for trying.


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[Deleted member 22389]

If the Remains feel the EU is so important, why don't you accept the Euro as our currency then?

 

[Hamilton]

How ever you dress it up, you are still voting based on forecasts, guesses, opinions, views, reports, assumptions,.......... in other words subjective.

Forecasts are not purely subjective, they are based upon evidence and trend data. You had better be voting based on that and not on your heart.

Claims that we will be able to spend £23 million a day on ourselves are not facts. They are distorted claims.

Now back to work for me.


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[Westdene Seagull]

Er, are you aware of how much of a basket case our economy was?


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Well I'm assuming those learned economists and politicians that were suggesting at the time we should join did and they STILL told us we would crash and burn if we didn't join. Why should it be any different this time ?

 

[Hamilton]

If the Remains feel the EU is so important, why don't you accept the Euro as our currency then?

Not the same issue. Distortion.


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