[Politics] Brexit

[dsr-burnley]

Actually yes there's me. Whilst I have no idea why this could in anyway be a problem the fact that a large number of EU member states have agreed blue badge agreement does suggest others are dragging their feet. Does not seem to require negotiating at all. I imagine bureaucracy got in the way.

Thank you. A touch of common humanity at last!

 

[dsr-burnley]

Actually yes there's me. Whilst I have no idea why this could in anyway be a problem the fact that a large number of EU member states have agreed blue badge agreement does suggest others are dragging their feet. Does not seem to require negotiating at all. I imagine bureaucracy got in the way.

Thank you. A touch of common humanity at last!

 

[Boys 9d]

Are these member States using their sovereignty which I've been given to understand is not allowed under EC rules?

 

[Bold Seagull]

It's a pretty nitpicky reasopn, if that is the reason. But if France chooses that a British disabled person can't park in a disabled space because the definition of disabled is, or might become, different in France from in the UK, you would support France's decision?

We don't know the reason. Hypothetically no I wouldn't support France's decision, but neither am I confident it's not the UK refusing to adhere to EU rules or something equally stupid on their part on this matter either.

The fact is, many of these issues are a consequence of taking ourselves out of a set of rules and regulations that made all this relatively seamless.

'Common humanity' - I'm not arguing it shouldn't happen, the only thing I'm putting to you is a question of who is to blame. Bizarre thing to have typed.

 

[Eric the meek]

When my passport has been checked in the past, "the look", takes more than two seconds

The 2 second figure came from someone who told us he had travelled many times on the ferry to France, and then told us he can only speak from his experience on the Newhaven-Dieppe route !

Never mind any passport checks, or even waving you through with no checks, just turning on the engine and driving past the border kiosk would take more than two seconds anyway !

 

[Bold Seagull]

...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The UK has unilaterally said that EU citizens who are disabled can use their EU blue badges in the UK. Eleven other countries have not made that decision. How can it possibly be the UK'#s fault that those 11 countries have not made their decision?

Has the UK actually asked them? We don't know but you blame the 11 countries?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Has the UK actually asked them? We don't know but you blame the 11 countries?

Do you think they should without being asked?

 

[Simster]

Have we had a vote on my opinion? No, so it's nothing to do with democracy.
I am posting facts with sources, whereas dsr is raising objections to the facts.

At least dsr is actually engaging in debate. Most of the Brexit people are simply too thick for that. [MENTION=35196]Is it PotG?[/MENTION] is absolutely case in point - rarely posts more than two sentences and even those are of no consequence. They certainly never answer any questions posed. Look at what you're responding it to as testament to that - his posts on Brexit are embarrassing. I can no longer be bothered to debate with idiots like him anymore and I'd say 90% of Brexiters on here are exactly like him.

 

[Simster]

By the way, as a remainer I think it is extremely churlish to suggest there is any excuse for EU states not to reciprocate on this disabled badge thing. But in the interest of balance, we have opted out of several things out of spite, and have had MPs talk like we're at war - so I'd suggest people in glass houses shouldn't really be throwing stones how unsavoury this may be.

 

[Stat Brother]

The Remain campaign was complacent and relied on the assumption that the country wasn't going to cut its nose off to spite its face. It was an arrogant campaign vs a campaign of lies. Truly embarrassing for our country and with a decade(s) long tail of destruction we're only early days into. It's clear that the negotiations were woefully inadequate and we're seeing examples of it everywhere you look. Unless you close your eyes, ignore the reality and blame someone else for our own stupidity of voting to Leave.

The longer this clusterf goes on the more I'm going to #BlameRemain.

The liars, cheats, conmen and snake oil salesmen from the self interests party, really can't help themselves.
It's who they are and what they've shown themselves to be - that's fine it's a shame we keep voting for them but, fine.


I remember at the time being frustrated by Remain, because of its general half arsed approach.
I honestly think they believed 'the public won't vote for this shite, they ain't that stupid and that racist'.

Well it turns out we are and they let us down by assuming we weren't.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Do you think they should without being asked?

I will go back to my golf club analogy. We've left the golf club which was a chain of golf clubs all operating under the same rules. Members could play golf in 27 different clubs around the area. We've left but are insisting that every single one of those clubs lets us back in, without contributing anything.

Some have said, you may play as a guest. Others just know we've canceled. Unless we ask, how do they know we want to play as a guest?

 

[Badger Boy]

The longer this clusterf goes on the more I'm going to #BlameRemain.

The liars, cheats, conmen and snake oil salesmen from the self interests party, really can't help themselves.
It's who they are and what they've shown themselves to be - that's fine it's a shame we keep voting for them but, fine.


I remember at the time being frustrated by Remain, because of its general half arsed approach.
I honestly think they believed 'the public won't vote for this shite, they ain't that stupid and that racist'.

Well it turns out we are and they let us down by assuming we weren't.

I think it's also worth adding that it didn't really help that the Leader of the Opposition could not have cared less. He was not interested in the campaigning, he did it when forced to do so and half-heartedly picked a side when he had no other choice but he fairly clearly didn't feel strongly one way or the other. Which, ironically, reflected how many people felt about the choice. There are pluses and minuses to both, but what those were wasn't brilliant articulated and the Leave campaign had no interest in even trying to. They were trying to sell a dream without painting the picture or attempting to make people realise what it would actually look like and what the consequences would actually be. And a small majority of the low turnout voted to Leave and to hell with the consequences. We are where we are but unfortunately the people responsible for negotiating are not very good and the agreements made aren't as good as the deals we had before.

 

[Mackenzie]

The UK has unilaterally said that EU citizens who are disabled can use their EU blue badges in the UK. Eleven other countries have not made that decision. How can it possibly be the UK'#s fault that those 11 countries have not made their decision?

European governments can treat us exactly how they want to, we have no say anymore in what they do. Brexit and our politicians are to blame for that.

Yet another reason why Brexit was such a fantastic idea, well done.

 

[cunning fergus]

What amazes me with Brexit is surely there must be some opportunities to make our citizens lives better, but despite resorting to the assistance of Sun readers the Tories still seem incapable of identifying anything of significance.

And in their desperate attempt to claim some Brexit victory they continue to sign terrible trade deals that undermine our industries.

Can Sunak's freeports / chart cities deliver any benefit to UK exporters?

Was the Tory agenda all along to deregulate and line their the pockets of themselves, their mates and their donors? Is it that simple?

Good old Sun reading Mick Lynch……Tory luvvie.

https://mobile.twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1539731821180731393

Who would have thought it……

 

[nicko31]

Good old Sun reading Mick Lynch……Tory luvvie.

https://mobile.twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1539731821180731393

Who would have thought it……

Not sure your point is...

Unfortunately voting Brexit brought with it the Vote Leave government that seem pretty keen on destroying the rights of UK citizens. Mike's is likely to find life harder going forward.

You won't see Union representation in the planned Tory chartered cities, the brainchild of Tuffon Street

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yes, it was Parliament's job to come up with a sensible exit deal, one that almost certainly meant staying in the single market in some form. They absolutely could have done this had they had the will, but sadly it (Parliament as a whole) smelt blood and chose to bring down the government, which is essentially why we have had this shambles of a government ever since. That is my view, you may not agree but that's fine.

I do not need to know the details, it is moot as it is in the past. To try and fix the issues it is my view that we should rejoin the single market in some form but should not rejoin the EU. What is your solution?

Thanks for your answer and I don't agree

The Leave campaign were never going to stay in the single market in any form. Johnson, Farage and JRM had all made it quite clear what they thought about 'a vassal state' (their words, not mine) and even Theresa May ruled out staying in the single market as part of her initial setting out of Brexit negotiations with her infamous 'red lines'. The simple fact is that the majority didn't vote for staying in the single market and what they voted for is exactly what we have now got

I agree with you completely that given the way we have totally f***ed ourselves over rejoining the single market is the only sensible thing to now do, as a first step towards recovering our economy and, who knows, maybe even getting a little influence in time.

I actually liked it when we were one of the most powerful voices making the rules of the single market and EU fit Britain's requirements, together with that brilliant deal we had with no Schengen, no Euro, all of those vetoes, special deals and extras etc etc that British Politicians of all political persuasions had successfully negotiated over the last 40 years, but I fully accept that Britain having that sort of power and influence has gone forever as a result of what we have done.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Thanks for your answer and I don't agree

The Leave campaign were never going to stay in the single market in any form. Johnson, Farage and JRM had all made it quite clear what they thought about 'a vassal state' (their words, not mine) and even Theresa May ruled out staying in the single market as part of her initial setting out of Brexit negotiations with her infamous 'red lines'. The simple fact is that the majority wasn't for staying in the single market and what they voted for is exactly what we have now got

I agree with you completely that given the way we have totally f***ed ourselves over rejoining the single market is the only sensible thing to now do, as a first step towards recovering our economy and, who knows, maybe even getting a little influence in time.

I actually liked it when we were one of the most powerful voices making the rules of the single market fit Britain's requirements, together with that brilliant deal we had with no Schengen, no Euro, all of those vetoes, special deals and extras etc etc that British Politicians of all political persuasions had successfully negotiated over the last 40 years, but I fully accept that Britain having that sort of power and influence has gone forever as a result of what we have done.

Thank you for that answer. What I would have liked to have happen in Parliament was May's red line on the single market being tested more than it actually was. I am sure that a majority of MPs would have gone for that eventually (I know that practically this would have been very difficult ) but events took hold etc etc. Let's hope that a major party has the balls to run in an election with rejoining the single market as a key policy some time soon, preferably 2024.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I will go back to my golf club analogy. We've left the golf club which was a chain of golf clubs all operating under the same rules. Members could play golf in 27 different clubs around the area. We've left but are insisting that every single one of those clubs lets us back in, without contributing anything.

Some have said, you may play as a guest. Others just know we've canceled. Unless we ask, how do they know we want to play as a guest?

Good analogy ..personally I think it’s not a question that needs asking, but I guess several other things could be labelled likewise

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not sure your point is...

Unfortunately voting Brexit brought with it the Vote Leave government that seem pretty keen on destroying the rights of UK citizens. Mike's is likely to find life harder going forward.

You won't see Union representation in the planned Tory chartered cities, the brainchild of Tuffon Street

It is a little confusing trying to make out what [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION]'s latest whataboutism witterings are trying to convey, but I think it may be

Mick Lynch telling his members to vote Brexit makes him a Tory Luvvie
and
cunning fergus telling everyone to vote Brexit definitely doesn't make him a Tory Luvvie