[Politics] Brexit

[Lever]

I was replying to posts laying down the blame mainly on Brexit.

What we do know is the impact of the shutdowns/Driver issues.

I would say a few drivers have left, but in the bigger picture of what has happened in the past 18 months that number isnt significant

The other supply issues has more to do with Brexit, but Im not sure you can make conclusions of what is and isnt till we are back to the whole of Europe being open fully.

Fair enough, you have answered those who would lay the blame mainly on Brexit, cited other issues as more significant and are suspending judgement on any conclusions about whether Brexit is a factor.

I am following, but would really like you to explain what your views are based on. Sources?

It's important because others are leaping on your 'moderate' arguments and claiming them as support for their own beliefs

 

[rogersix]

Now he will have to refer to Hannan and Fox to get the latest propaganda time schedule!

He cannot answer that himself!

or, indeed, anything else

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Fair enough, you have answered those who would lay the blame mainly on Brexit, cited other issues as more significant and are suspending judgement on any conclusions about whether Brexit is a factor.

I am following, but would really like you to explain what your views are based on. Sources?

It's important because others are leaping on your 'moderate' arguments and claiming them as support for their own beliefs

Drivers themselves who have been saying what the issues have been for years, unions backing it up as well.

 

[Lever]

Drivers themselves who have been saying what the issues have been for years, unions backing it up as well.

Okay, I certainly wouldn't disagree with your analysis (and that of the drivers and unions), because they/you are better placed to know than I am.

Do you think Rod McKenzie, policy director of the Road Haulage Association, is just wrong then?

https://inews.co.uk/news/hgv-driver...rant-shapps-brexit-blame-lorry-crisis-1216190

Here's an extract...

Paul Mummery, a spokesperson for the RHA, agreed that Brexit was a large contributor to the lorry driver shortage.

“We’ve lost 20,000 drivers who have returned to the EU, so Brexit is indeed a factor in the driver shortage getting so much worse this year,” he said.

“We’re at a critical point ahead of the busiest time of the year; hauliers must be allowed to recruit overseas drivers on short term visas to plug gaps whilst we recruit and train more UK drivers in the longer term.”

Haulage bosses also questioned the Transport Secretary’s claims that ramping up driver testing will help counteract the current shortage.

 

[Pretty Plnk Fairy]

my uplands are still sunny so take that wokeys as i ride a trycycle

Regards

DF

 

[sparkie]

We've got to the Mad Max phase of Brexit sooner than predicted it seems.

[Tweet]1441513791833792516[/Tweet]



https://youtu.be/4gi_IGuKx4U

Out of the ruins
Out from the wreckage
Can't make the same mistake this time

We are the children
The last generation (the last generation)
We are the ones they left behind

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Okay, I certainly wouldn't disagree with your analysis (and that of the drivers and unions), because they/you are better placed to know than I am.

Do you think Rod McKenzie, policy director of the Road Haulage Association, is just wrong then?

https://inews.co.uk/news/hgv-driver...rant-shapps-brexit-blame-lorry-crisis-1216190

Here's an extract...

Paul Mummery, a spokesperson for the RHA, agreed that Brexit was a large contributor to the lorry driver shortage.

“We’ve lost 20,000 drivers who have returned to the EU, so Brexit is indeed a factor in the driver shortage getting so much worse this year,” he said.

“We’re at a critical point ahead of the busiest time of the year; hauliers must be allowed to recruit overseas drivers on short term visas to plug gaps whilst we recruit and train more UK drivers in the longer term.”

Haulage bosses also questioned the Transport Secretary’s claims that ramping up driver testing will help counteract the current shortage.

He didn’t say 20k drivers going back to the EU because of Brexit, does he have a break down of who has gone back for what reasons? I’m not sure you can say they have gone back just because of Brexit - that would be Interesting as if they are going back because of Brexit they are not going back to be drivers as the EU is massively short.

I found a survey they had ran and the wording is interesting “perceived reason for shortage”

I heard the haulage boss earlier and he said that it’s too late for this shortage now due to the time it takes, this should have been in place weeks ago (or not panic lockdown key parts of the country with no back up) to try and fix the issue - which is not helped by them now going on strike.

McKenzie also said they more drivers short via lack of tests and shortage than anything Brexit has created

 

[Lever]

He didn’t say 20k drivers going back to the EU because of Brexit, does he have a break down of who has gone back for what reasons? I’m not sure you can say they have gone back just because of Brexit - that would be Interesting as if they are going back because of Brexit they are not going back to be drivers as the EU is massively short.

I found a survey they had ran and the wording is interesting “perceived reason for shortage”

I heard the haulage boss earlier and he said that it’s too late for this shortage now due to the time it takes, this should have been in place weeks ago (or not panic lockdown key parts of the country with no back up) to try and fix the issue - which is not helped by them now going on strike.

McKenzie also said they more drivers short via lack of tests and shortage than anything Brexit has created

Sorry... see below for response....

 

[Lever]

He didn’t say 20k drivers going back to the EU because of Brexit, does he have a break down of who has gone back for what reasons? I’m not sure you can say they have gone back just because of Brexit - that would be Interesting as if they are going back because of Brexit they are not going back to be drivers as the EU is massively short.

I found a survey they had ran and the wording is interesting “perceived reason for shortage”

I heard the haulage boss earlier and he said that it’s too late for this shortage now due to the time it takes, this should have been in place weeks ago (or not panic lockdown key parts of the country with no back up) to try and fix the issue - which is not helped by them now going on strike.

McKenzie also said they more drivers short via lack of tests and shortage than anything Brexit has created

I think that's generally right; this is what I have from the National Driving Centre....

https://www.nationaldrivingcentre.co.uk/why-is-there-a-lorry-driver-shortage/


.... back in 2020 when Covid-19 first presented itself as a growing worldwide problem, a lot of EU drivers within the industry went back home to their respective countries to wait things out and be with their families. Because of the limited movement, and for large periods of total lockdown, they couldn’t get back into the UK. Many still can’t. In 2020-2021 there is estimated to be 15,000 less EU nationals working in the UK. Leading us to the other catalyst for the lorry driver shortage that links to Covid-19 – Brexit.

When the UK officially left the EU on January 31st 2020 this compounded the issue of getting these skilled workers in from the continent. Before when we were part of the single market and people and produce could cross borders hassle free, none of this was a problem. But Brexit and Coronavirus working together has caused chaos with the UK not receiving the help in the haulage and distribution industry it has always relied so heavily upon from the EU.

 

[£1.99]

Found this very Interesting.
https://youtu.be/goo06-v2h-w

 

[Randy McNob]

I think that's generally right; this is what I have from the National Driving Centre....

https://www.nationaldrivingcentre.co.uk/why-is-there-a-lorry-driver-shortage/


.... back in 2020 when Covid-19 first presented itself as a growing worldwide problem, a lot of EU drivers within the industry went back home to their respective countries to wait things out and be with their families. Because of the limited movement, and for large periods of total lockdown, they couldn’t get back into the UK. Many still can’t. In 2020-2021 there is estimated to be 15,000 less EU nationals working in the UK. Leading us to the other catalyst for the lorry driver shortage that links to Covid-19 – Brexit.

When the UK officially left the EU on January 31st 2020 this compounded the issue of getting these skilled workers in from the continent. Before when we were part of the single market and people and produce could cross borders hassle free, none of this was a problem. But Brexit and Coronavirus working together has caused chaos with the UK not receiving the help in the haulage and distribution industry it has always relied so heavily upon from the EU.

All any Brexiter needs to do is say that it doesn't matter because any negative is outweighed by ______________________________(insert benefit), then say BAZINGA !

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I hope [MENTION=522]Kinky Gerbils[/MENTION] has some experience in the field of of de radicalisation, dealing with scientologist, jehovah witness types ...



Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I think that's generally right; this is what I have from the National Driving Centre....

https://www.nationaldrivingcentre.co.uk/why-is-there-a-lorry-driver-shortage/


.... back in 2020 when Covid-19 first presented itself as a growing worldwide problem, a lot of EU drivers within the industry went back home to their respective countries to wait things out and be with their families. Because of the limited movement, and for large periods of total lockdown, they couldn’t get back into the UK. Many still can’t. In 2020-2021 there is estimated to be 15,000 less EU nationals working in the UK. Leading us to the other catalyst for the lorry driver shortage that links to Covid-19 – Brexit.

When the UK officially left the EU on January 31st 2020 this compounded the issue of getting these skilled workers in from the continent. Before when we were part of the single market and people and produce could cross borders hassle free, none of this was a problem. But Brexit and Coronavirus working together has caused chaos with the UK not receiving the help in the haulage and distribution industry it has always relied so heavily upon from the EU.

How many of those 15k still want to be driving is a question I would ask, have they used this as a chance to look for a less stressful career, the Uk has seen thousands change career path as this has been a wake up call to spend more time with the family - are drivers any different?

It seems even more hassle to make sure you have paper work, vaccination etc to be a driver - I personally think job that was hard before has become much harder now.

If the shortage is as bad across Europe, why would you want to Drive In the UK instead of somewhere closer to home?

We are assuming they would want to come back

Slightly different to HGV drivers I know, but I think it has some relevance

I worked in Asda during Furlough, stacking, tills, home shopping etc which is all pretty easy stuff and I got £10 a hour

The drivers who have to lug heavy boxes around full of water, beers etc drive all day and night and have a much harder job got paid the same.

Why when there are thousands of jobs on the market now would you choose the harder job?

 

[Randy McNob]

[tweet]1441824441143644166[/tweet]

 

[sparkie]

So the only phase of Brexit left after the Mad Max phase is the Failed State phase.

Sort it out, Torries. Boot out Johnson, join the Single Market and save the country.

 

[Lever]

I hope [MENTION=522]Kinky Gerbils[/MENTION] has some experience in the field of of de radicalisation, dealing with scientologist, jehovah witness types ...



Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

Interesting…
Why’s that?

 

[Lever]

How many of those 15k still want to be driving is a question I would ask, have they used this as a chance to look for a less stressful career, the Uk has seen thousands change career path as this has been a wake up call to spend more time with the family - are drivers any different?

It seems even more hassle to make sure you have paper work, vaccination etc to be a driver - I personally think job that was hard before has become much harder now.

If the shortage is as bad across Europe, why would you want to Drive In the UK instead of somewhere closer to home?

We are assuming they would want to come back

Slightly different to HGV drivers I know, but I think it has some relevance

I worked in Asda during Furlough, stacking, tills, home shopping etc which is all pretty easy stuff and I got £10 a hour

The drivers who have to lug heavy boxes around full of water, beers etc drive all day and night and have a much harder job got paid the same.

Why when there are thousands of jobs on the market now would you choose the harder job?

I agree. People’s motivations (including drivers of course) are a complete unknown and can be interpreted in various ways for different purposes.

Thank you for a rancour-free instructive discussion. At least we have thought about the issues and tried to tease out ‘the truth’..

It makes a refreshing change from the snide innuendos and bad faith….

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I think that's generally right; this is what I have from the National Driving Centre....

https://www.nationaldrivingcentre.co.uk/why-is-there-a-lorry-driver-shortage/


.... back in 2020 when Covid-19 first presented itself as a growing worldwide problem, a lot of EU drivers within the industry went back home to their respective countries to wait things out and be with their families. Because of the limited movement, and for large periods of total lockdown, they couldn’t get back into the UK. Many still can’t. In 2020-2021 there is estimated to be 15,000 less EU nationals working in the UK. Leading us to the other catalyst for the lorry driver shortage that links to Covid-19 – Brexit.

When the UK officially left the EU on January 31st 2020 this compounded the issue of getting these skilled workers in from the continent. Before when we were part of the single market and people and produce could cross borders hassle free, none of this was a problem. But Brexit and Coronavirus working together has caused chaos with the UK not receiving the help in the haulage and distribution industry it has always relied so heavily upon from the EU.

Getting back to the UK because of Covid restrictions I completely get, but if they worked here previously they should have applied for settled status. I did my mothers in Jan 2019.

Travelling through France and Italy every year to see relatives in 80's and 90's, I was always impressed by the motorway service stations, the facilities especially for lorry drivers. Ours were laughable in comparison, and by the sounds of it they still are.

I wouldn't want to drive a lorry on our roads. Driving a car is stressful enough. Let's hope this changes lorry drivers wages and conditions in the future.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Getting back to the UK because of Covid restrictions I completely get, but if they worked here previously they should have applied for settled status. I did my mothers in Jan 2019.

Travelling through France and Italy every year to see relatives in 80's and 90's, I was always impressed by the motorway service stations, the facilities especially for lorry drivers. Ours were laughable in comparison, and by the sounds of it they still are.

I wouldn't want to drive a lorry on our roads. Driving a car is stressful enough. Let's hope this changes lorry drivers wages and conditions in the future.

Unless your mother is an HGV driver I don't get your point

There were underlying problems from the start, but then we have Brexit.

Before Brexit, HGV drivers who resided in the EU could work in the UK for a couple of days, a week or a month without changing their residence (and vice versa). Now they can't without a whole load of new procedures. They could bring loads to Britain and take loads back because our exports hadn't been decimated and they didn't have to go through the EU export processes. God knows what will happen if we ever 'take back control' and actually put in place the import controls we have always claimed we wanted.

This is what you campaigned and voted for. Enjoy your victory

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Unless your mother is an HGV driver I don't get your point

There were underlying problems from the start, but then we have Brexit.

Before Brexit, HGV drivers who resided in the EU could work in the UK for a couple of days, a week or a month without changing their residence (and vice versa). Now they can't without a whole load of new procedures. They could bring loads to Britain and take loads back because our exports hadn't been decimated and they didn't have to go through the EU export processes. God knows what will happen if we ever 'take back control' and actually put in place the import controls we have always claimed we wanted.

This is what you campaigned and voted for. Enjoy your victory

Some drivers are just in needed to stay and work in this country, for example delivering fuel, which is the main issue at the moment.
Having settled status makes it easier for them to get back?