[Politics] Brexit

[clapham_gull]

The country is a joke.

It isn't - just parliament to be honest and we have absolutely no control over it at the moment.

I can hold my head up high and say this is absolutely nothing to do with me and to be honest so can leavers.

I honestly believe the current electoral system is at a complete tangent with voting behavior.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It isn't - just parliament to be honest and we have absolutely no control over it at the moment.

I can hold my head up high and say this is absolutely nothing to do with me and to be honest so can leavers.

I honestly believe the current electoral system is at a complete tangent with voting behavior.

But the country is letting this happen. As I said in an earlier post, the French wouldn’t let this happen. Get out on the streets!


(Tongue partly in cheek)

 

[clapham_gull]

and the Labour position on Brexit is...? all about their political position rather than the health of the country. party politics eh, a pox on all their houses.

Yes, but I think its the system to be honest - I think you may agree. It's ****ed.

I was talking about this today, there are (far far less damaging) parallels in the media. Everything has become so fragmented in terms of what people watch and it appears the same has happened in Parliament.

The referendum was a binary choice which in reality in a world of fragmented views is completely toxic.

1) How can we split the country in two ?

2) How can we then split the country even more, because either side of the debate can't even agree with each other.

Blimey.

 

[clapham_gull]

But the country is letting this happen. As I said in an earlier post, the French wouldn’t let this happen. Get out on the streets!


(Tongue partly in cheek)

The French are definitely better at revolutions - I'll give them that.

 

[Da Man Clay]

Is Parliament not working the exact way it should do? Elected people doing exactly what they feel is right and best for the country and it’s consitiuents. It’s a current mess due to an ill-thought our refferundum and then the PM trying to cobble together something which is impossible to do (and made worse by her pretending that she could).

All a huge majority would do is presumably be able to force May to push this laughable deal over the line. Coalition governments tend to be slightly more reasonable around what does and does get through Parliament and avoid anything too extreme. Can’t see how a huge majority in the house helps.

PR is a better system. But we had our chance at that as a country and voted against it. C’est La Vie.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Who knows what the labour position is. All I know is they didnt call for this cluster**** to keep in power in the first place.

Is the right answer.

 

[clapham_gull]

Is Parliament not working the exact way it should do? Elected people doing exactly what they feel is right and best for the country and it’s consitiuents. It’s a current mess due to an ill-thought our refferundum and then the PM trying to cobble together something which is impossible to do (and made worse by her pretending that she could it).

All a huge majority would do is presumably be able to force May to push this laughable deal over the line. Coalition governments tend to be slightly more reasonable around what does and does get through Parliament and avoid anything too extreme. Can’t see how a huge majority in the house helps.

To be honest, I'm not so sure in our British experience. A Tory Government with a potential large majority pre-referendum probably wouldn't have thought a referendum was required to shore up it's looney right wing branch.

And a potential Labour Government, wouldn't go gung ho on a anti-EU nationalism agenda.

We've got ourselves into a position where the two main parties are just attempting to attract their core vote knowing they can creep over the line. I've massively changed my views over the last few years. This country is far more stable with a party with a majority, it's just the way we roll.

Extreme views in either party are actually tempered by individuals within them, cos you just have more of them.

So (deep breath) I'm taking this utterly nuanced view that the first past the post is dead in the water. We need something that increases majorities because you end up with broad views within them.

However I will say that Corbyn's attempt at given so much power to the members is totally flawed. MPs (when they are working well) try to reflect the different opinions within their constituency because they need to get elected next election. Handing so much power over to those who have no such responsibility or pressure is bollocks.

I can attempt to vote out a Labour MP, I can't force anyone to leave the party.

 

[daveinplzen]

These are the same politicians who will be leading us to the sunlit uplands unless there is a massive change. Future is bright.

 

[beorhthelm]

Who knows what the labour position is. All I know is they didnt call for this cluster**** to keep in power in the first place.

point is we are were we are and they offer no alternative. did they provide a remain position in the last GE? possibly may have brought them to power, except this large segment of the electorate that are not tories but voted to leave. continue to ignore them by pretending Brexit was only a matter for the Conservatives is why this is unresolved and another GE wont resolve it either.

 

[GT49er]

Oh FFS - that snot ridden pilllock, masquerading as a proper journalist, Oliver Holt, has now come out and said that the racial abuse inflicted on Raheem Sterling was caused by Brexit. Complete tosser.

I don't care which side of the brexit debate you are on, than still makes him a pr@t (I don't think I'm allowed to type the word with an ordinary 'a') of the most despicable sort. Yeugh!

 

[GT49er]

and the Labour position on Brexit is...? all about their political position rather than the health of the country. party politics eh, a pox on all their houses.

So let's just get out of the f****** EU and then let's sort out a better way the Without any 'help'; from the ECJ for a start.

 

[clapham_gull]

Oh FFS - that snot ridden pilllock, masquerading as a proper journalist, Oliver Holt, has now come out and said that the racial abuse inflicted on Raheem Sterling was caused by Brexit. Complete tosser.

I don't care which side of the brexit debate you are on, than still makes him a pr@t (I don't think I'm allowed to type the word with an ordinary 'a') of the most despicable sort. Yeugh!

I would go as far as saying "caused by Brexit", because I simply refuse to believe that 50% of the country has become racist over night,

However (and it's a big one), the climate of Brexit has quite definitely given the green light to a few idiots who think that "having their say" means they can be racist.

No more racists than ever there was, but they are definitely a bit louder than a few years ago. One of the unfortunate truths of the the post referendum fall out is that politicians rightly called out that they ignored fears of immigration.

Unfortunately there are a minority of knuckleheads in society who believe that means it's ok to be racist now.

You've only had to read this website.

 

[GT49er]

I would go as far as saying "caused by Brexit", because I simply refuse to believe that 50% of the country has become racist over night,

However (and it's a big one), the climate of Brexit has quite definitely given the green light to a few idiots who think that "having their say" means they can be racist.

No more racists than ever there was, but they are definitely a bit louder than a few years ago,

Actually, it's sadly given a lot of nice people who live and work here to believe a lot of lies and think they're not welcome. Leave was never about evicting foreigners; remain did their best to make hundreds, if not thousands, of nice people think that was the case.
There are no more racists, and they are no more vocal, than there were two years ago; probably less - although some remainers will try to portray it as otherwise, the anti-racist message continues to make headway....maybe all too slowly, but the majority of us can't help that. We must just keep pushing.

 

[Mental Lental]

point is we are were we are and they offer no alternative. did they provide a remain position in the last GE? possibly may have brought them to power, except this large segment of the electorate that are not tories but voted to leave. continue to ignore them by pretending Brexit was only a matter for the Conservatives is why this is unresolved and another GE wont resolve it either.

Agreed.

 

[clapham_gull]

Actually, it's sadly given a lot of nice people who live and work here to believe a lot of lies and think they're not welcome. Leave was never about evicting foreigners; remain did their best to make hundreds, if not thousands, of nice people think that was the case.
There are no more racists, and they are no more vocal, than there were two years ago; probably less - although some remainers will try to portray it as otherwise, the anti-racist message continues to make headway....maybe all too slowly, but the majority of us can't help that. We must just keep pushing.

Sorry they are quote definitely more vocal from my experience and living up here alongside many black / Asian / Muslim people I talk to they have definitely experienced more.

You also need to throw in the internet and social media into that equation. No more, but with the ability to agree with each other and "louder".

Media reporting is very very soundbite I'm afraid. You'll get a Labour MP talking about fears of immigration, social cohesion, "mistakes" of the Blair years and it gets reported as "even XXXX believes" etc...

The most depressing thing about Brexit for me was talking to an "Asian" women the morning after the vote. Just to put that into context, completely non religious, born in Birmingham and loved a drink and cigarette. Completely conscious of the rise of racism leading up to the vote in way I could never understand.

 

[Da Man Clay]

Actually, it's sadly given a lot of nice people who live and work here to believe a lot of lies and think they're not welcome. Leave was never about evicting foreigners; remain did their best to make hundreds, if not thousands, of nice people think that was the case.
There are no more racists, and they are no more vocal, than there were two years ago; probably less - although some remainers will try to portray it as otherwise, the anti-racist message continues to make headway....maybe all too slowly, but the majority of us can't help that. We must just keep pushing.

They are certainly a lot more vocal. Hate crime based on race or religion has gone up massively since the referendum.

 

[GT49er]

Sorry they are quote definitely more vocal from my experience and living up here alongside many black / Asian / Muslim people I talk to they have definitely experienced more.

You also need to throw in the internet and social media into that equation. No more, but with the ability to agree with each other and "louder".

Media reporting is very very soundbite I'm afraid. You'll get a Labour MP talking about fears of immigration, social cohesion, "mistakes" of the Blair years and it gets reported as "even XXXX believes" etc...

The most depressing thing about Brexit for me was talking to an "Asian" women the morning after the vote. Just to put that into context, completely non religious, born in Birmingham and loved a drink and cigarette. Completely conscious of the rise of racism leading up to the vote in way I could never understand.

Sad. Shouldn't be that way. But I'm convinced that most of this, 'We don't feel welcome/safe here any more' was generated by Project Fear. I do not believe it was by huge numbers of people suddenly hating ***s (or *****s or ****s). It certainly was a perception which suited Project Fear down to the ground, bearing in mind that remainers are adamant that all (or at least most) remainers are racist..

 

[Mental Lental]

You also need to throw in the internet and social media into that equation. No more, but with the ability to agree with each other and "louder".

You only need to look at the comments section on recent BBC articles to see evidence of this.....

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46515743

If you order comments by highest rated you'll see that those advocating No Deal are getting the most upvotes. Yet when it comes to actually getting off your arse and doing something about it via protests and marches you see Robinson's Brexit Betrayal march outnumbered 2 to 1 by a counter march that in turn also seemed to have nowhere near the numbers that the People's Vote march had a while back.

Social media and the internet has eschewed the representation of the true demographics due to the empty vessels making more noise on the internet.

In my humble opinion.

 

[clapham_gull]

You only need to look at the comments section on recent BBC articles to see evidence of this.....

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46515743

If you order comments by highest rated you'll see that those advocating No Deal are getting the most upvotes. Yet when it comes to actually getting off your arse and doing something about it via protests and marches you see Robinson's Brexit Betrayal march outnumbered 2 to 1 by a counter march that in turn also seemed to have nowhere near the numbers that the People's Vote march had a while back.

Social media and the internet has eschewed the representation of the true demographics due to the empty vessels making more noise on the internet.

In my humble opinion.

I'd add to that, that as a remainer the country (including me) under estimated the Eurosceptism in this country. Can't hide away from that in my Urban Liberal bubble.

My circle of people is almost exclusively remainers. When I discuss these issues I get asked (even tonight) - so you voted leave ?

Believe me, many remainers are as far up their backsides as those who voted to leave.

We are the conservative ones who voted for the status quo, those wishing to leave have decided to go for something quite radical.

I won't change my mind about remaining but neither will I forget the above. I hope we stay, but I do fear what that will mean if remain wins a second referendum.

 

[clapham_gull]

point is we are were we are and they offer no alternative. did they provide a remain position in the last GE? possibly may have brought them to power, except this large segment of the electorate that are not tories but voted to leave. continue to ignore them by pretending Brexit was only a matter for the Conservatives is why this is unresolved and another GE wont resolve it either.

Yep totally. An electorate split but not down party lines. Labour hasn't got a scooby either. You can't really on the Lib Dems to step in because they f##### that up. SNP want a break up of the Union.

Can't get a centre ground party up and running because no-one would agree on the logo by March.

Bloody Queens gonna step in isn't she poor old woman.