[Politics] Brexit

[pastafarian]

It's hilarious that a couple of posters here think the Greek people democratically chose to remain in the EU. Hilarious.

Sent straight from the boot of Lingard

The Greek fiasco/hold a knife to their throat is what passes as acceptable democracy amongst Europhiles
the benchmark is set very low in Brussels.

this is what you can look forward to forever if you vote remain and give them the green light

 

[JC Footy Genius]

This. This. And This again.

The whole euro scheme was a flawed piece of ideology. Everyone knew the books were cooked and yet they were allowed to join. Ridiculous.

Sent straight from the boot of Lingard

Astonishing how some remain supporters are prepared to overlook almost anything in support of the EU project. 'Little Englander's showing more compassion, understanding and solidarity with the terrible suffering of the Greek people than those who pontificate about European togetherness.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Astonishing how some remain supporters are prepared to overlook almost anything in support of the EU project. 'Little Englander's showing more compassion, understanding and solidarity with the terrible suffering of the Greek people than those who pontificate about European togetherness.

And it's because of the EU running roughshod over the wishes of the Greek people that we have scenes like this tonight:

Sent straight from the boot of Lingard

 

[5ways]

Mwahahahahaha!

And you know this how?

Sent straight from the boot of Lingard

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a7739ec4-04c2-11e6-a70d-4e39ac32c284.html

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a7739ec4-04c2-11e6-a70d-4e39ac32c284.html

Bounce...

Sent straight from the boot of Lingard

 

[5ways]

They did say no and were told accept crippling austerity or jump off the cliff. After being allowed to join a system they didn't meet the criteria for and being allowed to stay in despite continually breaching the rules. To dress this up as a straightforward democratic decision is grossly misleading and shows a sad lack of compassion for your fellow EU citizens who are suffering horrendously.

Hang on they lied and lied to get into the EU, and when they were in continued to take the piss. They spent, and spent and spent because money was cheap. If they had been honest about their books prior to joining the EU they never would have been allowed in without serious further reform.

 

[5ways]

Bounce...

Sent straight from the boot of Lingard

Sorry. this works : http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d-4e39ac32c284.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

 

[JC Footy Genius]

And it's because of the EU running roughshod over the wishes of the Greek people that we have scenes like this tonight:


Sent straight from the boot of Lingard

And approximately 50% of Austrians voting for a 'far right' President. Charismatic Austrian born far right leader rising to power ... seems to ring a bell.

http://wahl16.bmi.gv.at/

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Hang on they lied and lied to get into the EU, and when they were in continued to take the piss. They spent, and spent and spent because money was cheap. If they had been honest about their books prior to joining the EU they never would have been allowed in without serious further reform.

It was well known that the Greeks were lying. Many British commentators and politicians raised the matter but the main driving force of the EU, Germany and France, did not care as they were on an idealistic crusade.

Sent straight from the boot of Lingard

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Sorry. this works : http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d-4e39ac32c284.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Thanks for the link. However why use that as evidence? Osborne is firmly in the in side and of course he would say everything will be terrible and make up an arbitrary figure. The truth is, no one knows.

Sent straight from the boot of Lingard

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

And approximately 50% of Austrians voting for a 'far right' President. Charismatic Austrian born far right leader rising to power ... seems to ring a bell.

http://wahl16.bmi.gv.at/

There are rumblings across Europe that are very worrying. It's creaking and groaning like a ship about to sink. The far right will almost certainly be here to stay as a real force. The European politicians are in denial. And yet, this is the union that liberal British people wish to be a part of.

Sent straight from the boot of Lingard

 

[5ways]

Thanks for the link. However why use that as evidence? Osborne is firmly in the in side and of course he would say everything will be terrible and make up an arbitrary figure. The truth is, no one knows.

Sent straight from the boot of Lingard

The truth is that everyone who conceivably know what will happen has told us it is going to be messy, expensive and nasty. IMF, treasury, Bank of England, OECD, OBR...and then there's independent analysis, LSE, Oxford Economics so on and so on. No one knows if Brighton will challenge for promotion next year but if every pundit says they will be there or there abouts it's sensible to take that into consideration is it not?

The truth is Brexiters want to make it seem like it is unknowable. All this demonstrates in reality is that they have no coherent plan or positive economic message. So the best they can manage is try to make it seem like there is no consensus. There is a consensus, and that is brexit is bad today, bad tomorrow, bad forever.

 

[pastafarian]

Sorry. this works : http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d-4e39ac32c284.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

ah the famous £4300 by 2030 again

"Mr Osborne claimed that the Treasury’s gloomy forecasts represented the economic facts"

whilst you keep posting this can you also add the links to all the economic factual forecasts for the UK in 2030 should we remain

 

[Bladders]

Bad forever?

Now that is funny

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Hang on they lied and lied to get into the EU, and when they were in continued to take the piss. They spent, and spent and spent because money was cheap. If they had been honest about their books prior to joining the EU they never would have been allowed in without serious further reform.

Not you as well ... the people didn't lie and it is the job of the EU institutions to make sure the rules of the club are followed. Are you seriously telling me the EU didn't know that Greece did not meet the initial entry criteria or that it continually breached the rules year in year out? A blind eye was turned as it was for other countries most notably Germany and France.

There was, from the beginning, a way for the EU to police the economies of member states by following the rules that had been laid down for the single currency in the Maastricht Treaty.

It was called the Stability and Growth Pact, and it was not Italy or Greece that torpedoed it - it was Germany.

In 2003, France and Germany had both overspent, and their budget deficits had exceeded the 3% of GDP limit to which they were legally bound.

The Commission - then led by the former Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi - had the power to fine them.

But the finance ministers of what was then the 15 eurozone member countries gathered in Brussels and voted the Commission down.

Romano Prodi says he was prevented from fining France and Germany for breaking euro rules

They voted to let France and Germany off.

They voted not to enforce the rules they had signed-up to and which were designed to protect the stability of the single currency.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761087

 

[The Rivet]

The truth is that everyone who conceivably know what will happen has told us it is going to be messy, expensive and nasty. IMF, treasury, Bank of England, OECD, OBR...and then there's independent analysis, LSE, Oxford Economics so on and so on. No one knows if Brighton will challenge for promotion next year but if every pundit says they will be there or there abouts it's sensible to take that into consideration is it not? The truth is Brexiters want to make it seem like it is unknowable. All this demonstrates in reality is that they have no coherent plan or positive economic message. So the best they can manage is try to make it seem like there is no consensus. There is a consensus, and that is brexit is bad today, bad tomorrow, bad forever.

Yep we lost to CP and struggled against regulation. Then we challenged for promotion. Sounds like the ups and downs of the economy? Not an argument for staying in the EU!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The truth is that everyone who conceivably know what will happen has told us it is going to be messy, expensive and nasty. IMF, treasury, Bank of England, OECD, OBR...and then there's independent analysis, LSE, Oxford Economics so on and so on. No one knows if Brighton will challenge for promotion next year but if every pundit says they will be there or there abouts it's sensible to take that into consideration is it not?

The truth is Brexiters want to make it seem like it is unknowable. All this demonstrates in reality is that they have no coherent plan or positive economic message. So the best they can manage is try to make it seem like there is no consensus. There is a consensus, and that is brexit is bad today, bad tomorrow, bad forever.

A bit like when 364 economists wrote to the Times in 1981 forecasting doom and disaster as did the then Governor of the Bank of England and all the usual suspects but were all proved wrong. Consensus or group think isn't always right.

 

[5ways]

Not you as well ... the people didn't lie and it is the job of the EU institutions to make sure the rules of the club are followed. Are you seriously telling me the EU didn't know that Greece did not meet the initial entry criteria or that it continually breached the rules year in year out? A blind eye was turned as it was for other countries most notably Germany and France.

There was, from the beginning, a way for the EU to police the economies of member states by following the rules that had been laid down for the single currency in the Maastricht Treaty.

It was called the Stability and Growth Pact, and it was not Italy or Greece that torpedoed it - it was Germany.

In 2003, France and Germany had both overspent, and their budget deficits had exceeded the 3% of GDP limit to which they were legally bound.

The Commission - then led by the former Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi - had the power to fine them.

But the finance ministers of what was then the 15 eurozone member countries gathered in Brussels and voted the Commission down.

Romano Prodi says he was prevented from fining France and Germany for breaking euro rules

They voted to let France and Germany off.

They voted not to enforce the rules they had signed-up to and which were designed to protect the stability of the single currency.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761087

I admit I don't know the history that well, I'll look up the stability and growth pact.

 

[GT49er]

The truth is that everyone who conceivably know what will happen has told us it is going to be messy, expensive and nasty. IMF, treasury, Bank of England, OECD, OBR...and then there's independent analysis, LSE, Oxford Economics so on and so on. No one knows if Brighton will challenge for promotion next year but if every pundit says they will be there or there abouts it's sensible to take that into consideration is it not?.

If every pundit says we will, or we won't, makes no difference. Pundits are frequently wrong. As areIMF, treasury, Bank of England, OECD and the OBR (whatever that is!)

The truth is Brexiters want to make it seem like it is unknowable. All this demonstrates in reality is that they have no coherent plan or positive economic message. So the best they can manage is try to make it seem like there is no consensus. There is a consensus, and that is brexit is bad today, bad tomorrow, bad forever.

No, you would like there to be a consensus that Brexit is bad. Truth is, there isn't. Brexit may be bad for you; it would be wonderful for me. UK Independence Day 23rd. June 2016 - bring it on!

 

[Bladders]

I admit I don't know the history that well, I'll look up the stability and growth pact.

You'll be surprised what you'll find out if you look into the EU in more depth.

Shame you've left it this late