My position was very clear, it is not the price that is relevent here its the process and circumstance that might allow that end price to be cheaper, importing primarily unskilled eastern european workers that are advantaged by the disparity of our economies and accessing minimum wages that are up to four times those that they could earn back home (on top of receiving some benefits at a vastly inflated value that could be received in their own country) has had a major impact on migration, wages and opportunities to UK workers.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
My position was very clear, it is not the price that is relevent here its the process and circumstance that might allow that end price to be cheaper, importing primarily unskilled eastern european workers that are advantaged by the disparity of our economies and accessing minimum wages that are up to four times those that they could earn back home (on top of receiving some benefits at a vastly inflated value that could be received in their own country) has had a major impact on migration, wages and opportunities to UK workers.
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
In answer to a quietly put and unloaded question you responded with the words below. Given that the context of the question was the free movement of labour within the EU, it is reasonable to assume that the term 'freedom of labour' was shorthand for this.
"I am against free markets... The freedom of labour is the worst example of this because quite evidently not being able to manage supply and demand is disastrous. It's disastrous for workers pay, its disastrous for a government to manage state assets, like housing, education, healthcare etc... Therefore my view would apply within a state or as with the EU across a group of states, it makes no difference."
In response to your first point about consequences and reasons, I would argue that in these circumstances there are few differences. I know you disagree with my view, which is widely held, that a very significant number of people voting Leave did so for reasons not directly connected to the EU. As I said before, perhaps we should agree to differ on this.
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,684
During Labours time in Government the minimum wage increased infinitely.
In addition the rate increase you note is nothing new, in fact if anything the Tory government has worsened it. To date during the Tory Government it has increased by 21% since October 2010. During the previous 10 years when Labour when in Government, it increased by 61% (excluding the year it increased infinitely).
From Minimum Wage
01 October 2016 £7.20
01 April 2016 £7.20
01 October 2015 £6.70
01 October 2014 £6.50
01 October 2013 £6.31
01 October 2012 £6.19
01 October 2011 £6.08
01 October 2010 £5.93
01 October 2009 £5.80
01 October 2008 £5.73
01 October 2007 £5.52
01 October 2006 £5.35
01 October 2005 £5.05
01 October 2004 £4.85
01 October 2003 £4.50
01 October 2002 £4.20
01 October 2001 £4.10
01 October 2000 £3.70
01 April 1999 £3.60
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Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
Wasn't Maldini the pro-Brexit poster who got banned for his actions on here?
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
Yep, but you forgot the colour coding:
Conservatives: Hard Brexit, protracted over several years; (Red, white and blue Brexit formerly known as Brexit means Brexit)
UKIP: Hard Brexit, no notice. (Black Brexit)
Labour: soft Brexit; (Grey Brexit)
Lib Dems: second referendum; (White Brexit)
Greens: reverse Brexit. (Green Brexit also known as no Brexit)
I know you can't stand it, but the vote actually did go in favour of leave!
Oh I can stand it. Just giving the facts.
I think in future any referendum that changes the status quo and puts the country in jeopardy should really need a majority of the electorate voting for change.
OK, that is your take on farming. Now what about fuel prices and the cost of imported raw materials and finished consumer products, oh, and the little matter of higher interest rates?
WonderingSoton
New member
- Dec 3, 2014
- 287
Corbyn to whip Labour into voting in favour of Brexit reports the Guardian. Jezza, I do not agree with you on much, but - I salute you sir!
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...line-whip-on-labour-mps-to-trigger-article-50
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...line-whip-on-labour-mps-to-trigger-article-50
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
As mentioned elsewhere, I am sure that in the unlikely event of parliament voting against the deal May came home with - either because it was a bad deal or the economy was unravelling - then she would immediately get support in the House for calling an early election. Such an election would effectively be a substitute for a second referendum and, unless something unforeseen happened, we could expect pro-Brexit parties to win it. If they didn't, then, goodness gracious.
PS No possibility of a reply to my question in post 25481 I suppose?
nicko31
Well-known member
Lib Dems all the way for me, Tories would be crucified around here if there was an election tomorrow
No, its not my take its the fact of why you farmer mate likes recruiting cheap foreign labour and why they are readily available.
Again you are offering up yet another set of unsubstantiated forecasts, current inflation remains at 1.6% and current interest rates set at 0.25%.
Unless you are predicting impending runaway infaltion rates and high interest rates, it seems a worthless excersise to try and determine future inflation and interest rates by the degree.
Who brought in the minimum wage?
nicko31
Well-known member
Inflation is being capped by importers taking a hit on profits on the expectation the low pound would be temporary. With us now leaving the biggest trading bloc on the planet the pound isn't going to recover anytime soon and we are going to see inflation for sure
If employers can resist wage rises interest rates will hopefully stay low
Baldseagull
Well-known member
Before calling other posts ridiculous,you should check out EU tariffs on agricultural products.As a bit of a clue,they average out at 18%!So the sooner we are out of this euro-farce,the sooner proper food price competition will happen.I fully expect Waitrose to be more expensive for the same food,as most of its customers appear to be mugs.
The reason there are tariffs on agricultural products, is the heavy subsidies to agriculture. No foreign nation would give a country tariff free trading on a product that is state subsidised. If you want to flood the supermarkets with meat produced in dubious conditions or veg that may have been grown using pesticides banned here for causing cancers, you will have to stop subsidising agriculture first, which, with the addition of tariff free imports would, die as an industry in the UK. Not a good idea for a nation of 65 million to be totally dependent on imports to feed itself.
larus
Well-known member
Yes, Labour brought it in. However, as I'm sure you're all aware, the minimum wage is only part of the equation for low income families, let's look at the increase in the personal allowance.
So, comparing the 'boom' years of Gordon "Prudence lol" Brown to the 'austerity' years of the Nasty Tories, the rate is nearly double in times of "severe hardship".
No doubt that's another lie by the evil right wingers.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
Given the party loyalty shown to him over the last year, I would not count on them taking any notice.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
It was a liberal policy adopted as part of the coalition, to raise the threshold to above 10k.
But the Tories should be praised for supporting the good ideas of other parties, after they have been handed them.
Two Professors
Two Mad Professors
So are you saying the EU is totally self-sufficient,and doesn't import any foodstuffs?Bolox.The only contaminated food I can recall recently came from Hungary and Rumania (horse meat labelled as beef).We can import from the suppliers that are already in place,but without tariff.
