Boko Haram 'joins Islamic State'

[beorhthelm]

US, "clear and present danger" means we'd be in an effective state of war, mobilising the army and suspending freedoms and rights to prosecute that war. do you think we are in a state of war? or just worried about what might happen thousands of miles away, might have an affect on people, who might come here to engage in acts of violence/terrorism?

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

US, "clear and present danger" means we'd be in an effective state of war, suspending freedoms and rights to prosecute that war. do you think we are in a state of war? or just worried about what might happen thousands of miles away, might have an affect on people, who might come here to engage in acts of violence/terrorism?

Sorry, probably got carried away with Harrison Ford, you know what I mean though

 

[Igzilla]

What the situation really needs is for all these peace loving, moderate Muslims who are in the majority and living in the West to stand up as one and actively fight against IS. However, all the time there are 27%or so of these so called moderates who have sympathy with the Charlie Hebdo murderers motives, one suspects this cancer will swallow Islam up.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

What the situation really needs is for all these peace loving, moderate Muslims who are in the majority and living in the West to stand up as one and actively fight against IS. However, all the time there are 27%or so of these so called moderates who have sympathy with the Charlie Hebdo murderers motives, one suspects this cancer will swallow Islam up.

All the evidence to hand suggests that this is an unlikely scenario

 

[spring hall convert]

My word the Americans must be feeling pretty stupid now. They gave this lot weapons and training in the fight against Assad. It was a shame they couldn't train the Iraqi police and army as effectively.

If we have learnt anything from the abject failure of the middle east it is that Western intervention whether it is for the right or wrong reasons has a habit of backfiring spectacularly. This is a middle-eastern problem that the middle east needs to sort out. Have we leant absolutely nothing form recent history? We just make things worse.

It's almost as if the West has something to gain from ground war in the middle east and keeping the area unstable.

 

[Hastings gull]

My word the Americans must be feeling pretty stupid now. They gave this lot weapons and training in the fight against Assad. It was a shame they couldn't train the Iraqi police and army as effectively.

If we have learnt anything from the abject failure of the middle east it is that Western intervention whether it is for the right or wrong reasons has a habit of backfiring spectacularly. This is a middle-eastern problem that the middle east needs to sort out. Have we leant absolutely nothing form recent history? We just make things worse.

It's almost as if the West has something to gain from ground war in the middle east and keeping the area unstable.[/QUOTE]

Whilst not being in any way an expert, I though that the USA had given weapons to the Free Syrian Army, as Assad was clearly seen as an evil character a couple of years ago. Perhaps he still is, but his regime's excesses have been overshadowed by those of IS. I think that most folk would now agree that the Iraq war in particular has backfired on us, or has at least given the fanatics the excuse for mayhem that they wanted, but why are you asking the question as to whether we have learnt from history? What are we now doing that is wrong? I think your final assertion needs far more development.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

My word the Americans must be feeling pretty stupid now. They gave this lot weapons and training in the fight against Assad. It was a shame they couldn't train the Iraqi police and army as effectively.

If we have learnt anything from the abject failure of the middle east it is that Western intervention whether it is for the right or wrong reasons has a habit of backfiring spectacularly. This is a middle-eastern problem that the middle east needs to sort out. Have we leant absolutely nothing form recent history? We just make things worse.

It's almost as if the West has something to gain from ground war in the middle east and keeping the area unstable.

You do know that the Iraqi army forced IS to retreat when it attacked Baghdad? Iraq is gaining ground from IS.

 

[symyjym]

I saw on a documentary one of the groups fighting against Assad saying; they are at war with America for going into the ME and toppling its leaders, then saying that America should topple Assad. When asked about why Syria should be an Islamic secular state they said; secularism had been tried under Assad, but it didn’t work.

The moral of the point is that secularism has to come before democracy, even if this means under a regime, so as the saying goes its better the Devil you know. Assad is more in line with the west than it has been made out.

 

[Igzilla]

I saw on a documentary one of the groups fighting against Assad saying; they are at war with America for going into the ME and toppling its leaders, then saying that America should topple Assad. When asked about why Syria should be an Islamic secular state they said; secularism had been tried under Assad, but it didn’t work.

The moral of the point is that secularism has to come before democracy, even if this means under a regime, so as the saying goes its better the Devil you know. Assad is more in line with the west than it has been made out.

Is it because Assad was seemingly cosying up to the Russians too much?

 

[symyjym]

Is it because Assad was seemingly cosying up to the Russians too much?

Wiki backs up a strong Russian economic connection so possibly.

Wiki: Russia has significant trade relations with Syria. Its exports to Syria were worth $1.1 billion in 2010 and its investments in the country were valued at $19.4 billion in 2009 according to The Moscow Times. Besides lucrative arms contracts worth at least $4 billion, Russian firms have a substantial presence in Syria's infrastructure, energy and tourism industries.

Makes you wonder From what I have read about Assad, he is a quite man who studied as a medical student in London for a few years. I am not aware of any human rights abuse carried out by his regime before the trouble started.

 

[cunning fergus]

are these costs greater or otherwise different to the cost and implications of non-islamic terrorism? seems to me the casualties of terrorism are sense of perspective and real information. the freedoms being lost are the same that are always under attack from knee-jerk reaction to some event.

You tell me, what are the other home grown non Islamic terrorism threats the Government and its organs are invested in to suppress? How many variants of the "Prevent"programme are there?

Is everyone being searched before they get on a flight due to multiple terrorism threats or is it a more binary threat?

If we had any sense of perspective to the threat of home grown Islamic terrorists then the current security checks would not apply to everyone getting on flights...........the fact that they do then everyone is inconvenienced and affected as oppose to concentrating on the actual problem.

 

[cunning fergus]

Thread over folks. Cunning Fergus has pointed out the worst thing about IS is they help councils deal with illegal parking. I bet they use German cameras and Polish staff too eh CF?

10/10 for reactionary hysteria.........

Here is a letter to the Guardian take on the abuse of anti terror laws by Councils......

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/05/groundless-antiterror-laws-must-go

Or how about....

http://www.govyou.co.uk/remove-the-...error-surveillance-laws-to-snoop-on-citizens/

How about you state what side of the fence are you on regarding this issue.......for the record I am unhappy about it.

It would appear we are at odds.

 

[cunning fergus]

Anyway you really proved Mustafa wrong about you being hysterical there CF, good work, phone Nigel and let him know perhaps he'll buy you a pint.

Thanks, yes I did.

Anyone who says we are not all affected by the the threat of terrorism is an imbecile.

I will tell everyone in the long winding queue to get into Cheltenham today who have bag that the blokes in luminous jackets poking about are just being inquisitive..........

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Your main point seems to be that we are sacrificing our freedoms to the government as a result of a terrorist threat.

My argument is that the threat of terrorism is greatly exaggerated by the powers that be for that very reason. Your hysteria over the problem is the result of a prolific and relentless bombardment of fear inducing information by the mainstream media - and this is exactly why they are getting away with it.

I don't read hysteria in his post. We have already had terrorist attacks in this country and a couple of court cases recently where attacks have been thwarted. I would say the security forces taking it seriously, is the correct decision, regardless of the media. Who believes the press anyway?

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Your main point seems to be that we are sacrificing our freedoms to the government as a result of a terrorist threat.

My argument is that the threat of terrorism is greatly exaggerated by the powers that be for that very reason. Your hysteria over the problem is the result of a prolific and relentless bombardment of fear inducing information by the mainstream media - and this is exactly why they are getting away with it.

That is pretty insulting when you think about it, of the memories of the victims of 7/7 in this Country who probably though much the same as you when they left home that morning and did not expect their bodies to be in 10 pieces splayed around a tube or bus an hour later

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Your main point seems to be that we are sacrificing our freedoms to the government as a result of a terrorist threat.

My argument is that the threat of terrorism is greatly exaggerated by the powers that be for that very reason. Your hysteria over the problem is the result of a prolific and relentless bombardment of fear inducing information by the mainstream media - and this is exactly why they are getting away with it.

The trouble is we have had a feeling, a kind of sinister fear which has been slowly and steadily creeping up since 9/11. Putting aside hysteria, it is human nature to fear the worst, to fear an attack on one's country, one's people one's family. And these fears have turned to reality, many people have died and many more could have had our security forces been less successful. In the second world war, it was very difficult for a spy or infiltrator to remain undetected. We were for the most part a society with a unified culture and race. Obviously that has changed dramatically and suspicion falls on the many innocent and good people who happen to be Muslim due to the actions of the few who are in my view traitors to this country. Can you imagine anyone advocating killing and bombing our people in ww2 and being allowed to remain free? I believe these advocates should be interned as traitors and dealt with accordingly. My fear is that other atrocities will occur which will in the end harm all our society, Muslim, Christian, Jew, atheist etc we will all succumb and the minorities will suffer the most.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

It is important to remain rationally minded. Of course 7/7 was a awful thing, as are all terrorist attacks, but it's vital to remember that such events are extremely rare and it is almost certain that you and everyone you know will never directly be affected by one.

7/7 happened nearly 10 years ago now, tragically killing 50 people - of course the victims should not be forgotten, but we shouldn't let skew our perception of real life risks - literally more people in Britain die from lightning strikes than terrorist attacks on British soil by some margin.

That said, our forces are doing a brilliant job at thwarting the rogue nutters who do plot to kill in name of extremist ideologies. So we can be confident that we don't need to sacrifice even more of our freedoms to tackle terrorism - equally we should never be convinced to go to war in the manner that we have ever again.

I hope to God you are right, I fear not though. I think you have got this threat wrong

 

[pastafarian]

Your main point seems to be that we are sacrificing our freedoms to the government as a result of a terrorist threat.

My argument is that the threat of terrorism is greatly exaggerated by the powers that be for that very reason. Your hysteria over the problem is the result of a prolific and relentless bombardment of fear inducing information by the mainstream media - and this is exactly why they are getting away with it.

In this country there have been over 400 convictions for those charged with terrorist related offences since 9/11,some of these people were planning mass murder,and you sit there and say the threat is greatly exaggerated by those in power.

Terrorist acts in this country are thankfully rare thanks in part to these convictions and because none of the "powers that be" are complacent fools like you

 

[wellquickwoody]

My argument is that the threat of terrorism is greatly exaggerated by the powers that be for that very reason.

But your argument carries no weight as you are a terrorist sympathiser.

 

[daveinprague]

Libel on NSC...excellent stuff.