BNP f**k up - again

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Except he didn't. There are some faulty sources on the net, such as that. Official daily diaries show that he didn't visit the Germany embassy. They DO show that he sent a telegram, which your faulty source doesn't even claim he didn't - so where did you get that "fact" you claim, again, inacurately from.

de Valera was notable for never signing books of condolence, as it happens - the death of Roosevelt got a telegram too and his non-appearance at the US embassy was a source of media scandal.

Anyway, you said you "believe" he signed it in Dublin, hence my question - where the f*** else could he have signed it if he had?

Telegrams would have been sent to express condolences in the event of the death of a monarch or president , these protocols were observed as a mark of respect. Eire was a neutral country , by NOT sending a telegram it would have inferred Eamon de Valera was adopting a pro Allies stance.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Yep i thought you might dismiss that as a unreliable source as it contradicts what you believe.So if i find another link will you treat that the same way Cian? The link i gave you i thought would be more creditable as it's from Belfast.This is not a personal attack on you but i believe you will be totally biased because of your Irish roots.

Not going to get involved in the De Valera argument as I have no idea, but that website does seem incredibly biased, if not inaccurate. Its from a Church of Ireland cathedral, i.e. not Catholic, and seems to have a bit of an obsession with Irish soldiers who have served the British Army. I can't personally understand why a cathedral's website would need to have an unreferenced political history on it anyway.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The British National Party was ridiculed last night for fronting its anti-immigration campaign with a picture of a Polish Spitfire...

BNP shot down after it uses a POLISH Spitfire to front its anti-immigration campaign | Mail Online

Some unfortunate geek has cocked up big time , finds a picture of a Spitfire to use in the campaign but doesn't check the history of the actual plane !!!

 

[Buzzer]

Telegrams would have been sent to express condolences in the event of the death of a monarch or president , these protocols were observed as a mark of respect. Eire was a neutral country , by NOT sending a telegram it would have inferred Eamon de Valera was adopting a pro Allies stance.

Here's a little project for you, should you choose to accept it. Try and find out how many "neutral" countries sent condolences to Germany after Hitler's suicide. There weren't many.

 

[Cian]

Here's a little project for you, should you choose to accept it. Try and find out how many "neutral" countries sent condolences to Germany after Hitler's suicide. There weren't many.

Try to find out how many neutral countries the world had in 1945... even now theres less than 10.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Here's a little project for you, should you choose to accept it. Try and find out how many "neutral" countries sent condolences to Germany after Hitler's suicide. There weren't many.

Before doing the research (which I doubt is as straightforward as you would suggest, although perhaps a historian has already done the leg work), can I just point out a potential flaw - i.e. that there were practically no neutral European countries in WW2, so the sample and scope ain't fantastic. And then you have to take into account relative complicated relations with members of the allies.

 

[Buzzer]

Okay. So let me re-phrase that. How many of those neutral countries risked the wrath of (umm....not sure really) by NOT sending condolences?

Anyway. It's all immaterial. Lots of British subjects betrayed Britain (I seem to recall reading that the murdering cunt Gerry Adam's uncle helped Nazis pinpoint locations to bomb in WWII) and patriotic Irishmen like Spike Milligan who was a second generation soldier in the British Army wasn't even allowed a British passport. It's all a bit mixed-up.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Okay. So let me re-phrase that. How many of those neutral countries risked the wrath of (umm....not sure really) by NOT sending condolences?

Anyway. It's all immaterial. Lots of British subjects betrayed Britain (I seem to recall reading that the murdering cunt Gerry Adam's uncle helped Nazis pinpoint locations to bomb in WWII) and patriotic Irishmen like Spike Milligan who was a second generation soldier in the British Army wasn't even allowed a British passport. It's all a bit mixed-up.

I doubt he'd like being called a British subject.

But anyways theres no questioning that Britain had the moral high ground in WW2, but to pick out tidbits to try and claim Ireland were on the side of the Nazis is wrong.

1. Ireland was trying to find its own feet at this stage, and needed politically, as well as economically, to make a clean break from Britain.
2. Don't make an anachronism - the majority of everyday people outside of German control were completely unaware of the Holocaust until the end of the war, so it wasn't at the time as clear cut a good/evil fight as we now realise it was.
3. Britain went to fight for the sovereignty of nations in Europe, whilst Ireland had in very recent memory had to fight Britain for its own sovereignty. Sound fair? Why should Ireland unquestioningly support Britain?

 

[London Pompous]

Okay. So let me re-phrase that. How many of those neutral countries risked the wrath of (umm....not sure really) by NOT sending condolences?

Anyway. It's all immaterial. Lots of British subjects betrayed Britain (I seem to recall reading that the murdering cunt Gerry Adam's uncle helped Nazis pinpoint locations to bomb in WWII) and patriotic Irishmen like Spike Milligan who was a second generation soldier in the British Army wasn't even allowed a British passport. It's all a bit mixed-up.

Surely this proves that it's not where you're born that matters, but whether you're a twat or not.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Here's a little project for you, should you choose to accept it. Try and find out how many "neutral" countries sent condolences to Germany after Hitler's suicide. There weren't many.

The only neutral country with documentary evidence is Eire. As World War 2 was a global conflict there wasn't many neutral countries. Switzerland might well have sent condolences to be diplomatic and then destroyed any records.

 

[algie]

Except he didn't. There are some faulty sources on the net, such as that. Official daily diaries show that he didn't visit the Germany embassy. They DO show that he sent a telegram, which your faulty source doesn't even claim he didn't - so where did you get that "fact" you claim, again, inacurately from.

de Valera was notable for never signing books of condolence, as it happens - the death of Roosevelt got a telegram too and his non-appearance at the US embassy was a source of media scandal.

Anyway, you said you "believe" he signed it in Dublin, hence my question - where the f*** else could he have signed it if he had?

Seems your A level in history isn't worth a wank mate.De Velera didn't visit the embassy in Dublin? Right.

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/AAE/gallery.htm

 

[algie]

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/AAE/gallery.htm

 

[Cian]

Seems your A level in history isn't worth a wank mate.De Velera didn't visit the embassy in Dublin? Right.

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/AAE/gallery.htm

A "legation" is not an embassy. Its the ambassadors residence.

Does that say anywhere that he signed a book of condolences? No.

He didn't visit the Germany embassy. He didn't sign a book of condolences.

Seems your ability to read is, as ever, useless.


You'll also notice that the American ambassador's complaint letter mentions that de Valera visited his residence on the death of Roosevelt. Everything done by the government for both deaths was identical, his complaint letter takes issue with the secretary of the (figurehead) President not visiting. Feck knows why he didn't seeing as the Presidents residence and the US ambassadors residence are about a three minute walk from each other.

 

[algie]

A "legation" is not an embassy. Its the ambassadors residence.

Does that say anywhere that he signed a book of condolences? No.

He didn't visit the Germany embassy. He didn't sign a book of condolences.

Seems your ability to read is, as ever, useless.

For some reason it won't let me post a link.I'll give you another link on a forum and then scroll down to the archive link. Perhaps you can post the link i'm after.

Axis History Forum View topic - De Valera's Condolence Call at the German Embassy

 

[Buzzer]

I doubt he'd like being called a British subject.

But anyways theres no questioning that Britain had the moral high ground in WW2, but to pick out tidbits to try and claim Ireland were on the side of the Nazis is wrong.

1. Ireland was trying to find its own feet at this stage, and needed politically, as well as economically, to make a clean break from Britain.
2. Don't make an anachronism - the majority of everyday people outside of German control were completely unaware of the Holocaust until the end of the war, so it wasn't at the time as clear cut a good/evil fight as we now realise it was.
3. Britain went to fight for the sovereignty of nations in Europe, whilst Ireland had in very recent memory had to fight Britain for its own sovereignty. Sound fair? Why should Ireland unquestioningly support Britain?

Hang on. Don't start putting words in my mouth. All I was trying to do (very badly, apparently) was point out the hole in the argument that Ireland might have sent condolences so as not to appear pro-Ally. That's all. And I did qualify my remarks by saying that it was all complicated.

Surely this proves that it's not where you're born that matters, but whether you're a twat or not.

Word.

 

[Cian]

I found the link from quouting your post. Its nothing I haven't seen before, except the letters from the US ambassador and the High Comissioner in London:

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/AAE/gallery.htm

As I told you, nothing in state records from that period is redacted. It still doesn't have anything to prove your claim that he visited the embassy let alone signed a book of condolences there.

It does however provide more proof to my claim that for whatever reason they decided to follow state policy in relation to that death.


Now can we move on to your even more ludicrous claim that the Irish state had spies helping the Axis?

 

[algie]

I found the link from quouting your post. Its nothing I haven't seen before, except the letters from the US ambassador and the High Comissioner in London:

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/AAE/gallery.htm

As I told you, nothing in state records from that period is redacted. It still doesn't have anything to prove your claim that he visited the embassy let alone signed a book of condolences there.

It does however provide more proof to my claim that for whatever reason they decided to follow state policy in relation to that death.


Now can we move on to your even more ludicrous claim that the Irish state had spies helping the Axis?

Post the link anyway because it won't let me for some reason.Anyway i think this is a debate noone will win really.

 

[Cian]

Post the link anyway because it won't let me for some reason.Anyway i think this is a debate noone will win really.

I tried. It seems the page hasn't got a title so NSC won't let you post it...

Lets Try Again.

 

[Winker]

Some unfortunate geek has cocked up big time , finds a picture of a Spitfire to use in the campaign but doesn't check the history of the actual plane !!!

The plane in the picture is a MkVb, flown by Squadron Leader Jan Zumbach of 303 (Polish) Sqaudron. The MkVb didn't enter service until 1941 so it's not even a Battle of Britain photo. I'm surprised no-one has picked up on this

 

[algie]

I tried. It seems the page hasn't got a title so NSC won't let you post it...

Lets Try Again.

Nice one.

Now click on Commentary