BHA Supporters' Trust

[Lokki 7]

However it IS dire because it was supposed to raise 2mil and it got, what, about 300,000? That is pathetic. So why has it failed to reach even 25% of it's target? Well I'd guess because there are a lot of people like me

So because the A&K fund ONLY raised £300k it is not only dire but also pathetic? Is this a wind up or are you for real?

 

[maffew]

So because the A&K fund ONLY raised £300k it is not only dire but also pathetic? Is this a wind up or are you for real?

Its very ignorant. 300k is a tremendous effort for donations with nothing in return. the 2million(?) pound target was unrealistic, £335 free fdonation rom the whole crowd at Withdean? Impossible

 

[The Auditor]

Its very ignorant. 300k is a tremendous effort for donations with nothing in return. the 2million(?) pound target was unrealistic, £335 free fdonation rom the whole crowd at Withdean? Impossible

£50 from everyone who went to the playoff final would give the trust a great start

 

[The History Man]

Interesting debate. Although I’m chairman of the Supporters’ Club, I make these comments in a purely personal capacity.

I could be the “interest” that Supporters Direct have registered as I am on their mailing and emailing lists, but I have been for many years. I know the launch of Supporters Direct in January 2000 was attended by Bob Pinnock (then a director), Paul Samrah and Paul Whelch. I am not aware of any other contact with regard to the establishment of a trust at the Albion.

Dick Knight and Martin Perry are happy with the idea of a supporters’ trust (ST) and they’ve both said so at public meetings. They have also said that Alive & Kicking money (around £330,000 last I heard) can be converted to shares for such an ST.

From my observations, an ST comes into its own when a football club is in financial trouble; there are numerous examples across the country. They are registered as “Industrial & Provident Societies”, regulated by the Financial Services Authority, and have to adhere to strict rules on community interest and accounting.

An ST has a legal identity and can “own” property in its own right, which is not the case with an unincorporated association like the Supporters’ Club. This means that an ST can acquire shares in the football club with all members of the ST owning those shares mutually and equally however much money they might individually put into the ST.

When a club is in trouble an ST can therefore take control and pick up the pieces, and this has happened on quite a number of occasions. The football club is then owned by its supporters via the ST as a true community club.

We’re not in that position, but soon, hopefully, we’ll be looking for investment in the Albion to help fund the new stadium and minimise the club’s borrowing requirement. A public issue of shares would cost something like £250,000 (the club has looked into this), so by far the most sensible way for the ordinary supporter to put his/her few quid in is by joining an ST that pools their money and acquires shares in the club as a major investor.

I know that there is a desire for supporters to own part of the Albion, which was in widespread ownership until 1977. A few years ago the Supporters’ Club sent a questionnaire to members; 132 out of 134 respondents said they would like to buy Albion shares.

For these reasons alone – investment and ownership – I would advocate the formation of a ST. It is a strongly positive argument.

But shouldn’t all those members also have a say in the running of the club, via perhaps a supporter-director? The financial clout of £330,000-plus would certainly merit a seat on the present board as I believe it is in the same “ball park” as the sums put in by some of the directors. But don’t have expectations that the supporter-director will come to meetings of the ST and tell all the members every detail of goes on in the boardroom. That cannot happen. A good deal of information will flow back, but perhaps no more than we enjoy at present from events like fans’ forums or the Supporters’ Club AGM, or Ask the Club on NSC, or even just by emailing Martin Perry.

As chairman of the Supporters Club, I ask questions and am told things in confidence by the Albion board. I ask these questions on behalf of my members, and they trust me – I hope – to do what is right for the football club and for them. And that often means not being able to tell them the answer. An elected supporter-director should be someone who can be trusted by supporters to act in the club’s (and therefore the supporters’) best interests inside the boardroom and to know what he/she can and cannot say or do outside that boardroom. That is an onerous role indeed but a worthwhile one. But would it mean that we lose access to Dick and Martin? I hope not.

The Supporters’ Club, which is as open and democratic as we can make it, essentially performs the following roles:

It keeps members informed
It supports campaigns, financially and otherwise
It gives members the chance to get involved as volunteers
It raises funds for campaigns, supporter facilities and the football club
It provides transport to away games
It represents supporters’ interests to the Albion board and management
It arranges meetings for members to quiz the Albion board and management
It liaises with other supporters’ organisations and authorities

A good ST would seek to perform all these roles (although the transport option might be doubtful).

The Supporters’ Club was formed in 1912, re-formed in 1982 and reconstituted in 1997. If an ST performs many of the same functions then the Supporters’ Club might not survive in its present form, but to my mind the establishment of an ST owning a substantial part of the Albion would be progress, an evolution in the representation of Albion supporters. Perhaps the historic lineage of the Supporters’ Club could be preserved by somehow incorporating it and its members – and perhaps its expertise in various areas as well, such as transport provision – into the ST.

But a note of caution here. Even though the Supporters’ Club performs all the roles above, it has a steady membership of around 350, not a huge figure. We haven’t had a recruitment drive for some time – too busy campaigning for the last decade! – and I know there are reasons why the Supporters’ Club is not the choice of many fans, but I include this as an indication of the numbers achieved by a hard-working committee that communicates with its members, provides discounts, etc.

The main reason at present for an ST is the investment/ownership issue. But, in the absence of a crisis, for an ST to maintain interest after the initial surge of enthusiasm would take a lot of hard work and a great deal of dedication from the ST board/committee. Who knows, you might even get the same old faces running it – because they have a history of putting in a lot of voluntary work for the benefit of the Albion and Albion supporters.

A few weeks ago I attended the Hull City ST AGM to ask them to write letters to their local paper as a follow-up to the giant postcard at Prescott’s office. When Hull City were in trouble Tigers 2000 did great things. Now, with City in a new stadium and in the championship, the AGM was attended by the committee plus five others. I thought I might have to join up so that they at least had a quorum!

So don’t expect your average supporter to join up and remain a member once the initial enthusiasm has passed. An ST should set out what it wants to do at the start and not be too ambitious.

Summing up my thoughts:

Firstly, the formation of a ST as an investment and ownership vehicle for fans is a worthy objective in itself.

Secondly, it would be a good idea to have an ST in place should Albion go belly-up for some reason. Who knows, one day it may take control of the club. One day it may NEED to take control of the club.

Thirdly, a supporter-director would be merited because of the financial input but his/her onerous role should be understood to be that of a “guardian” for supporters rather than a “mouthpiece” for the board or a “mole” for supporters. And we should seek to retain the current open policy of the board where the chairman and the chief executive can be quizzed in public (as well as any supporter-director).

Finally, in our current situation an ST should not try to be too ambitious because there will be a hell of a lot of hard work for a dedicated committee to do to maintain enthusiasm. An organisation is only as good as the people running it and they need to be truly dedicated. We will only get one chance to use the resources of Supporters Direct so we must not blow it through apathy.

How to take this forward? The catalyst has to be the stadium decision. If it is positive then we should capitalise on the enthusiasm generated and use an ST to provide investment for the club and/or stadium. The investment and ownership issues must be the driving force for the establishment of an ST at this time and this is in the interests of the Albion and its supporters.

After the stadium decision, the next move would be for a small committee of enthusiasts to contact Supporters Direct (assuming there is no current activity re Albion) and to draft what the ST should and should not do. Then formulate a wish-list subsequently to be agreed with the Albion – matters like supporter-director, continuing public access, conversion of Alive & Kicking money to shares, etc.

Then call a public meeting and invite representatives of Supporters Direct along to address it. The purpose would be to explain the ST, to pass a resolution to establish an ST perhaps with a draft constitution, and to elect a temporary committee to legally establish the ST in harmony with Supporters Direct and register with the FSA. It would need mechanisms to sign up members (including on-line), open bank accounts, etc.

With the ST established, an inaugural meeting would be called to formally elect a new board/committee – and that would be it. The ST would require proper accounting and auditing in accordance with FSA rules.

The ST would also need a name. They all seem to operate with pronounceable acronyms. BHAST is the obvious one but I’m sure there must be something better!

It’s not a trivial operation and would require a lot of dedication from those who run it, but I do believe it would be a beneficial move for supporters and for the football club. Perhaps we need to gauge support before anything else. But, like the future of our football club, it all depends on that decision from John Prescott.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Interesting debate. Although I’m chairman of the Supporters’ Club, I make these comments in a purely personal capacity.

I could be the “interest” that Supporters Direct have registered as I am on their mailing and emailing lists, but I have been for many years. I know the launch of Supporters Direct in January 2000 was attended by Bob Pinnock (then a director), Paul Samrah and Paul Whelch. I am not aware of any other contact with regard to the establishment of a trust at the Albion.

Dick Knight and Martin Perry are happy with the idea of a supporters’ trust (ST) and they’ve both said so at public meetings. They have also said that Alive & Kicking money (around £330,000 last I heard) can be converted to shares for such an ST.

From my observations, an ST comes into its own when a football club is in financial trouble; there are numerous examples across the country. They are registered as “Industrial & Provident Societies”, regulated by the Financial Services Authority, and have to adhere to strict rules on community interest and accounting.

An ST has a legal identity and can “own” property in its own right, which is not the case with an unincorporated association like the Supporters’ Club. This means that an ST can acquire shares in the football club with all members of the ST owning those shares mutually and equally however much money they might individually put into the ST.

When a club is in trouble an ST can therefore take control and pick up the pieces, and this has happened on quite a number of occasions. The football club is then owned by its supporters via the ST as a true community club.

We’re not in that position, but soon, hopefully, we’ll be looking for investment in the Albion to help fund the new stadium and minimise the club’s borrowing requirement. A public issue of shares would cost something like £250,000 (the club has looked into this), so by far the most sensible way for the ordinary supporter to put his/her few quid in is by joining an ST that pools their money and acquires shares in the club as a major investor.

I know that there is a desire for supporters to own part of the Albion, which was in widespread ownership until 1977. A few years ago the Supporters’ Club sent a questionnaire to members; 132 out of 134 respondents said they would like to buy Albion shares.

For these reasons alone – investment and ownership – I would advocate the formation of a ST. It is a strongly positive argument.

But shouldn’t all those members also have a say in the running of the club, via perhaps a supporter-director? The financial clout of £330,000-plus would certainly merit a seat on the present board as I believe it is in the same “ball park” as the sums put in by some of the directors. But don’t have expectations that the supporter-director will come to meetings of the ST and tell all the members every detail of goes on in the boardroom. That cannot happen. A good deal of information will flow back, but perhaps no more than we enjoy at present from events like fans’ forums or the Supporters’ Club AGM, or Ask the Club on NSC, or even just by emailing Martin Perry.

As chairman of the Supporters Club, I ask questions and am told things in confidence by the Albion board. I ask these questions on behalf of my members, and they trust me – I hope – to do what is right for the football club and for them. And that often means not being able to tell them the answer. An elected supporter-director should be someone who can be trusted by supporters to act in the club’s (and therefore the supporters’) best interests inside the boardroom and to know what he/she can and cannot say or do outside that boardroom. That is an onerous role indeed but a worthwhile one. But would it mean that we lose access to Dick and Martin? I hope not.

The Supporters’ Club, which is as open and democratic as we can make it, essentially performs the following roles:

It keeps members informed
It supports campaigns, financially and otherwise
It gives members the chance to get involved as volunteers
It raises funds for campaigns, supporter facilities and the football club
It provides transport to away games
It represents supporters’ interests to the Albion board and management
It arranges meetings for members to quiz the Albion board and management
It liaises with other supporters’ organisations and authorities

A good ST would seek to perform all these roles (although the transport option might be doubtful).

The Supporters’ Club was formed in 1912, re-formed in 1982 and reconstituted in 1997. If an ST performs many of the same functions then the Supporters’ Club might not survive in its present form, but to my mind the establishment of an ST owning a substantial part of the Albion would be progress, an evolution in the representation of Albion supporters. Perhaps the historic lineage of the Supporters’ Club could be preserved by somehow incorporating it and its members – and perhaps its expertise in various areas as well, such as transport provision – into the ST.

But a note of caution here. Even though the Supporters’ Club performs all the roles above, it has a steady membership of around 350, not a huge figure. We haven’t had a recruitment drive for some time – too busy campaigning for the last decade! – and I know there are reasons why the Supporters’ Club is not the choice of many fans, but I include this as an indication of the numbers achieved by a hard-working committee that communicates with its members, provides discounts, etc.

The main reason at present for an ST is the investment/ownership issue. But, in the absence of a crisis, for an ST to maintain interest after the initial surge of enthusiasm would take a lot of hard work and a great deal of dedication from the ST board/committee. Who knows, you might even get the same old faces running it – because they have a history of putting in a lot of voluntary work for the benefit of the Albion and Albion supporters.

A few weeks ago I attended the Hull City ST AGM to ask them to write letters to their local paper as a follow-up to the giant postcard at Prescott’s office. When Hull City were in trouble Tigers 2000 did great things. Now, with City in a new stadium and in the championship, the AGM was attended by the committee plus five others. I thought I might have to join up so that they at least had a quorum!

So don’t expect your average supporter to join up and remain a member once the initial enthusiasm has passed. An ST should set out what it wants to do at the start and not be too ambitious.

Summing up my thoughts:

Firstly, the formation of a ST as an investment and ownership vehicle for fans is a worthy objective in itself.

Secondly, it would be a good idea to have an ST in place should Albion go belly-up for some reason. Who knows, one day it may take control of the club. One day it may NEED to take control of the club.

Thirdly, a supporter-director would be merited because of the financial input but his/her onerous role should be understood to be that of a “guardian” for supporters rather than a “mouthpiece” for the board or a “mole” for supporters. And we should seek to retain the current open policy of the board where the chairman and the chief executive can be quizzed in public (as well as any supporter-director).

Finally, in our current situation an ST should not try to be too ambitious because there will be a hell of a lot of hard work for a dedicated committee to do to maintain enthusiasm. An organisation is only as good as the people running it and they need to be truly dedicated. We will only get one chance to use the resources of Supporters Direct so we must not blow it through apathy.

How to take this forward? The catalyst has to be the stadium decision. If it is positive then we should capitalise on the enthusiasm generated and use an ST to provide investment for the club and/or stadium. The investment and ownership issues must be the driving force for the establishment of an ST at this time and this is in the interests of the Albion and its supporters.

After the stadium decision, the next move would be for a small committee of enthusiasts to contact Supporters Direct (assuming there is no current activity re Albion) and to draft what the ST should and should not do. Then formulate a wish-list subsequently to be agreed with the Albion – matters like supporter-director, continuing public access, conversion of Alive & Kicking money to shares, etc.

Then call a public meeting and invite representatives of Supporters Direct along to address it. The purpose would be to explain the ST, to pass a resolution to establish an ST perhaps with a draft constitution, and to elect a temporary committee to legally establish the ST in harmony with Supporters Direct and register with the FSA. It would need mechanisms to sign up members (including on-line), open bank accounts, etc.

With the ST established, an inaugural meeting would be called to formally elect a new board/committee – and that would be it. The ST would require proper accounting and auditing in accordance with FSA rules.

The ST would also need a name. They all seem to operate with pronounceable acronyms. BHAST is the obvious one but I’m sure there must be something better!

It’s not a trivial operation and would require a lot of dedication from those who run it, but I do believe it would be a beneficial move for supporters and for the football club. Perhaps we need to gauge support before anything else. But, like the future of our football club, it all depends on that decision from John Prescott.

While totally respecting your position within the club's supporting heirarchy, I would also humbly suggest that there's not many people (including me) who can be arsed to read a ten-thousand word post on the subject. That is a SHOCKINGLY long post, and part of the reason why a (Plain English) Supporters Trust is what's needed. No offence. seriously.

Somebody the other night who just joined the Supporters Club showed me their membership card. Which was number 700 and something. That says a lot. Total respect for running the coaches and stuff, but might I humbly (twice in one night - a record!) suggest that there's something about the Supporters Club that could do with a makeover, so that more albion fans might want to sign on the dotted line.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news (there's always ONE )

 

[rool]

I think you may be speaking for yourself there THPP as I consider myself a big boy now and that I can manage to read a post that has more than four words if it is relevant and interesting, which I think that one was.

Total respect of course

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I think you may be speaking for yourself there THPP as I consider myself a big boy now and that I can manage to read a post that has more than four words if it is relevant and interesting, which I think that one was.

Total respect of course

Total respect in return munster monsh, my fault I'm sure that I have a very short attention sp

 

[BensGrandad]

The History Man could you answer a query for me.

As I read it the ST accumulates a certain amount of money with which to buy some shares and then appoints a member to be the 'voice on the board'.

If this is so does everybody have to give the same amount of money i.e would you ask for say £50 per person donation to be a member of the syndicate that is called the Supporters Trust or would it be open for persons to give what they could afford. In the event of the club being sold or even going bankrupt would the persons who contributed to the fund gain or be held responsible for debts incurred and would the level be dependant on the amount that they contributed if the contributions were of different amounts.

 

[London Irish]

SAKE Tom, it's an involved subject, watch MTV with their five-second-max edits instead if you have the attention span of a goldfish.

I would like to thank the History Man for his update. There is clearly a lot of work to do. Sadly, I agree with the History Man's slight pessimism of the same old faces being expected to organise everything. I just hope NSC can be used to generate some new faces getting involved in the dogged work required.

Thanks also for clarifying the point about the costs of a share issue. If the Albion has issued shares instead of the A&K fund, the costs incurred in fees would have swallowed up virtually 80 per cent of the individual donations to A&K!

You can see why there has to be a degree of patience in waiting for the right opportunity of a major shareholder joining the Albion to establish the trust.

Of course that doesn't mean a lot of preparatory work can't be done before that - hopefully the huge stimulus of a Falmer victory will stir us all into action to create the trust

 

[London Irish]

The History Man could you answer a query for me.

As I read it the ST accumulates a certain amount of money with which to buy some shares and then appoints a member to be the 'voice on the board'.

If this is so does everybody have to give the same amount of money i.e would you ask for say £50 per person donation to be a member of the syndicate that is called the Supporters Trust or would it be open for persons to give what they could afford. In the event of the club being sold or even going bankrupt would the persons who contributed to the fund gain or be held responsible for debts incurred and would the level be dependant on the amount that they contributed if the contributions were of different amounts.

No shareholders, whether it be Fatboy Slim or a Supporters Trust, are liable for debts on bankruptcy under company law. All they lose is the money they put into the company.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

SAKE Tom, it's an involved subject, watch MTV with their five-second-max edits instead if you have the attention span of a goldfish.

I would like to thank the History Man for his update. There is clearly a lot of work to do. Sadly, I agree with the History Man's slight pessimism of the same old faces being expected to organise everything. I just hope NSC can be used to generate some new faces getting involved in the dogged work required.

LI - I think the History Man is sort of PRESUMING that 'the same old faces' will be 'expected to organise everything'. He has no way of knowing. In fact, judging by the thrusting and pouting of a couple of the people on this thread, who we all know well, and who we sort of respect, that it's FAR from a foregone conclusion. I f it's a Supporters Trust then presumably it'll come down to a ballot of supporters that we sort of know and Trust. And some surprising faces may become, er, History.

Just like the days are long gone when Gulls Eye led the way in the fight for the club's survival and was granted automatic kudos, the days when the Supporters Club was automatically assumed to represent the voice of BHAFC supporters as a whole are some way off.

No offence.

But times move on.

 

[Yorkie]

The History Man organises the litter patrol every home game and is one of only a few who does it every time.
I think he is entitled to say 'the same old faces'.

 

[London Irish]

I f it's a Supporters Trust then presumably it'll come down to a ballot of supporters that we sort of know and Trust. And some surprising faces may become, er, History.

Bloody hell, and they say if you put 3 Irishmen in a room, you've got a split. Here's Tom gayly looking forward to the trust giving us a chance to have a bit of internecine blood-letting among the Albion faithful - Christ on a bike :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud:

 

[Biscuit]

The History Man organises the litter patrol every home game and is one of only a few who does it every time.
I think he is entitled to say 'the same old faces'.

In The Laughing Bluebird we're here.. he'd be called a "Morally superior superfan."

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Bloody hell, and they say if you put 3 Irishmen in a room, you've got a split. Here's Tom gayly looking forward to the trust giving us a chance to have a bit of internecine blood-letting among the Albion faithful - Christ on a bike :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud:

Ain't voting for YOU - that's FER sure matey. Jeez!

 

[dougdeep]

While totally respecting your position within the club's supporting heirarchy, I would also humbly suggest that there's not many people (including me) who can be arsed to read a ten-thousand word post on the subject. That is a SHOCKINGLY long post, and part of the reason why a (Plain English) Supporters Trust is what's needed. No offence. seriously.

Somebody the other night who just joined the Supporters Club showed me their membership card. Which was number 700 and something. That says a lot. Total respect for running the coaches and stuff, but might I humbly (twice in one night - a record!) suggest that there's something about the Supporters Club that could do with a makeover, so that more albion fans might want to sign on the dotted line.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news (there's always ONE )

There's nothing wrong with the supporters club, that a few more members wouldn't cure. How can you have a go at Tim unless you are a member, and know how well it is run Tom.

 

[London Irish]

Ain't voting for YOU - that's FER sure matey. Jeez!

Well, I'm voting for you, a bit of responsibility running the trust might mature you

 

[Biscuit]

Me and Kinky will do it.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Well, I'm voting for you, a bit of responsibility running the trust might mature you

 

[Ernest]

The ARS should run any supporters trust as WE are the true supporters and not Dick Tights lapdogs.
As a historical fact the ARS are actually the REAL supporters club as we founded the present incarnation in 1983 and funded it BEFORE we were SHAMEFULLY ejaculated at a rigged AGM