Barber On The Warpath Over Train Disruption, Doesn't Pull Any Punches!

[Rugrat]

Sorry Barber, SASTA don't give a **** what you think. Sadly, the same is true of the other stakeholders (DfT & RMT). This needs the PM to intervene and sort the mess out - no other way.

Sadly this is correct. PB has to go public with the strongest possible condemnation but it won't have any bearing on the wider issue. We can kick and scream as much as we want but we haven't any leverage. Stop paying and they stop providing any sort of service.

Until the combined wanchors of SASTA and RMT are forced to resolution then nothing whatsoever is going to change

 

[wellquickwoody]

Because then Southern would presumably stop accepting match tickets as valid for travel.

Like to see the Transport Police enforce this on match day

 

[bhanutz]

**** the RMT!

 

[sydney]

there is some multi millionaire somewhere banging his fist on the table demanding to know what the feck is going on with his train company.....and there is absolutely no one who can tell him....cos they're all stupid.

 

[pigbite]

Situations like last Friday are simply inviting a serious incident to occur. It could be frustrated rival fans kicking off in the queue. It could be someone knocked down being forced to walk back to Lewes. It could be something escalating with a local resident angry at people ignoring parking restrictions.

At some point someone is going to get seriously hurt or worse simply because it is nigh on impossible to ensure crowd safety when the rail unions and Southern are allowed to play their silly games with each other during a time of very high demand.

I have every sympathy for the guards despite being affected every week by Southern's appalling service however the risks presented by these type of situations should be unacceptable. Everyone at Southern should hang their heads in shame at their selfish and irresponsible actions on Friday. I don't know what the answer is but I really fear that nothing will improve until someone gets killed or injured.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

There is a solution, line up all lefty unionists and let them have it

Britain in 2016,

Beard oil, men's moisturiser and HD brows.

WTF is going on.

 

[bhanutz]

If I walk past another picket line....I may not be responsible for my actions! How dare they smirk knowing what inconvenience they are causing!

If you don't want your job....LEAVE...It isn't that difficult!

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Sadly this is correct. PB has to go public with the strongest possible condemnation but it won't have any bearing on the wider issue. We can kick and scream as much as we want but we haven't any leverage. Stop paying and they stop providing any sort of service.

Until the combined wanchors of SASTA and RMT are forced to resolution then nothing whatsoever is going to change

The service is no longer fit for purpose.

It is as good as no service now, so there is no downside to Southern withdrawing it.

Rip up the contract and hit the Southern shareholders in the pocket.

 

[beorhthelm]

It is true. I don't know why you're saying that, because the RMT said they had a deal on the table with Southern, and the DfT scuppered it. It's one of the reasons Claire Perry resigned 'in embarrassment'.

apologies, i thinking about a more recent deal in the past few weeks. however, look back at when Perry resigned in July, it was stil the RMT that apparently rejected an offer, and she resigned because she felt unable to do anything about it. the minister cant do anything then so if its government, who is supposed to be causing this debacle and for what purpose?

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

But that's exactly why he should call on the Government to resolve it. It is a policy to smash the unions and only they can reverse it.

PG

On today's Daily Politics, the shadow Transport Minister named Peter Wilkinson at the Department for Transport as the man responsible for this confrontation - and Claire Perry, who was also on, did not disagree - so maybe PB should send him the bill.

 

[The Large One]

Are you for real? Who told you that?

Totally for real.

The RMT said they had a deal on the table with Southern a few months ago. The DfT scuppered it, Claire Perry (the then rail minister) resigned over it.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Totally for real.

The RMT said they had a deal on the table with Southern a few months ago. The DfT scuppered it, Claire Perry (the then rail minister) resigned over it.

There is clearly more to this than who shuts the doors. Southern are trying to break their employees and their union. Its all classic union busting tactics, an example of this is the situation you describe. We are all suffering because some greedy bugger sitting at the top wants to reduce wages, get rid of employees, make everything cheaper and make more cash. The thing is it becomes a war of attrition and no one backs down. SASTA are so inept that even their Union Busting isn't very good.

 

[The Large One]

apologies, i thinking about a more recent deal in the past few weeks. however, look back at when Perry resigned in July, it was stil the RMT that apparently rejected an offer, and she resigned because she felt unable to do anything about it.

The RMT didn't reject the offer. They were ready to sign it and were appalled at the volte-face from Southern. Claire Perry said she was embarrassed to be the rail minister, principally because she was being instructed by the then Transport Minister Patrick McLoughlin and the Permanent Secretary at the DfT Philip Rutnam.

the minister cant do anything then so if its government, who is supposed to be causing this debacle and for what purpose?

As has been posted countless times, it's a way for the government to cut costs in the running of the railways (even though it's more investment that's needed, not cuts), while at the same time 'smash the unions'. This isn't scaremongering propaganda, this is the full intention as stated by Peter Wilkinson, a senior civil servant at the Department for Transport, at a public meeting in Croydon back in February.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

On today's Daily Politics, the shadow Transport Minister named Peter Wilkinson at the Department for Transport as the man responsible for this confrontation

Here he is, squirming in front of a distinctly-unimpressed Transport Select Committee ("That isn't what you told us before. Why did you give us wrong information?")

https://twitter.com/ABCommuters/status/798491443727892480

 

[beorhthelm]

The RMT didn't reject the offer. They were ready to sign it and were appalled at the volte-face from Southern. Claire Perry said she was embarrassed to be the rail minister, principally because she was being instructed by the then Transport Minister Patrick McLoughlin and the Permanent Secretary at the DfT Philip Rutnam.

thats not how the Guardian reported it and the RMT itself doesnt have a PR that suggest the offer was withdrawn, so maybe you can enlighten further?

As has been posted countless times, it's a way for the government to cut costs in the running of the railways (even though it's more investment that's needed, not cuts), while at the same time 'smash the unions'. This isn't scaremongering propaganda, this is the full intention as stated by Peter Wilkinson, a senior civil servant at the Department for Transport, at a public meeting in Croydon back in February.

we cant keep going back to one remark by one person as proof of an entire departments objectives, unless we at least stop to ask why its been allowed to hold sway. governement has backtracked on many other controversial issues, why is this one so sacred? they put some emergency money in last month that would cover dozens of staff for a few years, so while i know they do want to reduce public cost of the railway, its about more than hard cash.

 

[Soulman]

yeah, but 4 days on zero communication

Not so, he was on the case straight away. I got a personal reply at 18-10 on Saturday evening.

 

[Poppett63]

Technically, I suspect that Southerns contract is with the club but if we all en masses claimed our money back for last Griday, it could cost them hundreds of thousands in refunds and admin if we all made a claim. Let's do it!

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Just use the facts as they are as lies and exaggeration do not win discussions.

Worked for Trump.

 

[The Large One]

thats not how the Guardian reported it and the RMT itself doesnt have a PR that suggest the offer was withdrawn, so maybe you can enlighten further?

Hardly anyone in the media has reported this story accurately, so that point is moot. The RMT themselves said that the deal was struck with GTR on the Friday, and Southern came back on the Monday reneging on it.

Incidentally, the DfT was livid that the deal between ScotRail and the RMT was agreed. However, they have no jurisdiction over it - it comes under the transport department within the Scottish Parliament.

we cant keep going back to one remark by one person as proof of an entire departments objectives, unless we at least stop to ask why its been allowed to hold sway. governement has backtracked on many other controversial issues, why is this one so sacred? they put some emergency money in last month that would cover dozens of staff for a few years, so while i know they do want to reduce public cost of the railway, its about more than hard cash.

We can keep going back to that one remark by Peter Wilkinson, as he is the 'one person' who is the government's lead civil servant at the DfT. He was setting out, in public, the government's policy on this issue. The 'sacred' issue about this is to smash the unions, with the passengers merely the collateral. There isn't an argument to be had.

If it's not the government's position, he has had nine months to clarify, and publicly alter what would have effectively been a misleading or untrue statement. He has done no such thing.

He has since been accused by the Transport Select Committee of misleading it, though that's a separate issue.

The emergency money, incidentally, was no such thing. Instead, they used some of it on a campaign to encourage passengers to bully and intimidate the staff - a campaign they now admit was 'a mistake'. Plus, as has been repeatedly stated, Southern are not recruiting the staff they need to adequately cover the services.

 

[clapham_gull]

How do you know how often and when we pay SASTA?

Regardless, let's say we can stop paying them. They then stop trains. What then? Who loses out? Not SASTA, that's for sure.

On the basis the ticket income goes to the Government...