Barber On The Warpath Over Train Disruption, Doesn't Pull Any Punches!

[The Large One]

Okay then, how about 'Over the course of this dispute well over 100,000 supporters have been let down badly'?

That seeks to presume Southern's incompetence is down to the dispute.

Meanwhile, there is a judicial review being put together to hold the government to account for the way it is managing the railway service (as opposed to the dispute). I think people should have a look at getting behind that. Naturally, the DfT are stalling over this - they've missed three deadlines already.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Sorry Barber, SASTA don't give a **** what you think. Sadly, the same is true of the other stakeholders (DfT & RMT). This needs the PM to intervene and sort the mess out - no other way.

 

[The Large One]

But that's exactly why he should call on the Government to resolve it. It is a policy to smash the unions and only they can reverse it.

PG

https://abcommuters.wordpress.com/

 

[pearl]

Sorry Barber, SASTA don't give a **** what you think. Sadly, the same is true of the other stakeholders (DfT & RMT). This needs the PM to intervene and sort the mess out - no other way.

she doesn't give a shit either

 

[heathgate]

Time for a march. #Bozza mentioned it at the weekend. Is it time for the 100's waiting for transport back to Brighton or Lewes to take to the road and walk?
I'm P&R but would join back to Mithrus House and would not complain at being stuck behind the many walking back to Lewes.

Yep.. that's a great idea... A27 blocked on both directions... that should generate a reaction.

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[The Large One]

Sorry Barber, SASTA don't give a **** what you think. Sadly, the same is true of the other stakeholders (DfT & RMT). This needs the PM to intervene and sort the mess out - no other way.

And therein lies the point. The government has no intention of intervening and sorting the mess out, and they are the ones who are driving it.

Actually, one point - a few months ago, Southern and the RMT had a deal on the table, agreed on a Friday, which they left over the weekend in order for them to consult with their respective executives. Come Monday morning and ready to sign the agreement, Southern tell that there will be no deal. They've been told not to settle the deal.

In short, the government did intervene, but only to scupper the settelement.

Seriously unhelpful.

 

[heathgate]

she doesn't give a shit either

Didn't realise you had a hotline route into the PM's industrial relations strategy.... do tell us more.

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[Triggaaar]

But surely a contract would entail supplying trains. If they don't deliver, then shouldn't we get our money back?

We'd want more than our money back, we'd want to sue for losses etc.

 

[beorhthelm]

And therein lies the point. The government has no intention of intervening and sorting the mess out, and they are the ones who are driving it.

Actually, one point - a few months ago, Southern and the RMT had a deal on the table, agreed on a Friday, which they left over the weekend in order for them to consult with their respective executives. Come Monday morning and ready to sign the agreement, Southern tell that there will be no deal. They've been told not to settle the deal.

In short, the government did intervene, but only to scupper the settelement.

thats not true though is it, thats rumour or mis-information to create confusion. as far as i read it, there was a deal from Southern, RMT refuse to agree to it demanding the same deal offered to Scotrail. meanwhile Southern have imposed the deal on staff anyway by issuing notice unless you sign the deal demand, which RMT advised their members to do. so the change is being imposed, the staff are switching over to On Board Supervisors, some trains switching to DOO. RMT refuse to back a deal with any exceptions to a second safty person on board, though as i understand it those exceptions dont hold currently because the RMT wont recognise them. dont see how the government is supposed to be forcing the RMT to not agree.

it my contention that the government doesnt intervene because the deal they have is the only one thy could get, and that the only alternative would be direct managment from DfT and no one wants to touch that due to the inherent problems in the network. they keep it arms length with both the operator and the union to blame and absorb critism.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

We'd want more than our money back, we'd want to sue for losses etc.

Too right. Assuming the Albion paid upfront for Southern's services, then they should be actively chasing them through the courts for any losses incurred due to Southern's failure to provide said services. Southern may well have the government in their pocket, but they won't have the courts in their pocket. At least you'd sincerely hope not.

Commuters (and football fans) are by nature a docile bunch. Mustn't grumble and all that. Happy in the main to join long queues or suffer shoddy service. Take's a lot to get them mobilised. But the crowdfunded locally-based Association of British Commuters has done just that, and is actively pursuing the government through the courts in an attempt to force them to account for their actions. Or more accurately, inactions. IMHO, they are fully worthy of the support of anyone having their lives majorly disrupted by this callous company who currently appear to be accountable to nobody at all.

https://www.crowdjustice.org/case/southernrail/

 

[The Large One]

thats not true though is it, thats rumour or mis-information to create confusion. as far as i read it, there was a deal from Southern, RMT refuse to agree to it demanding the same deal offered to Scotrail. meanwhile Southern have imposed the deal on staff anyway by issuing notice unless you sign the deal demand, which RMT advised their members to do. so the change is being imposed, the staff are switching over to On Board Supervisors, some trains switching to DOO. RMT refuse to back a deal with any exceptions to a second safty person on board, though as i understand it those exceptions dont hold currently because the RMT wont recognise them. dont see how the government is supposed to be forcing the RMT to not agree.

it my contention that the government doesnt intervene because the deal they have is the only one thy could get, and that the only alternative would be direct managment from DfT and no one wants to touch that due to the inherent problems in the network. they keep it arms length with both the operator and the union to blame and absorb critism.

It is true. I don't know why you're saying that, because the RMT said they had a deal on the table with Southern, and the DfT scuppered it. It's one of the reasons Claire Perry resigned 'in embarrassment'.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Because then Southern would presumably stop accepting match tickets as valid for travel.

There is no usable service now.

So what if tickets arn't valid ?

 

[The Oldman]

Good read. As Southern Rails biggest single customer, the Albion can hopefully put some much needed pressure on them to resolve the matter.

Maybe the club could work with the local council and bus companies to put on a much larger number of buses to and from the stadium and tell Southern Rail to go f*** themselves.

Brighton bus company are owned by the same group as Southern. So when the club put on the extra transport they presumably have to pay Brighton buses. That means the go ahead group get paid twice to provide a service that they are contracted to provide. Win,win for the shareholders.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

The rail service to the Amex is now not fit for purpose.

The albion need to tear up the contract and hit Southern shareholders ( and executive bonuses ) in the pocket.

The albion should then not do a further deal with Southern unless there are big penalty clauses for service failure.

Use the saved money to either reduce ticket prices or employ more buses.

Make do with a normal Southern service, and let them close Falmer station if they feel they have to.

Only consider a new deal when the railway service in Sussex is under a new franchise.

 

[bhanutz]

And therein lies the point. The government has no intention of intervening and sorting the mess out, and they are the ones who are driving it.

Actually, one point - a few months ago, Southern and the RMT had a deal on the table, agreed on a Friday, which they left over the weekend in order for them to consult with their respective executives. Come Monday morning and ready to sign the agreement, Southern tell that there will be no deal. They've been told not to settle the deal.

In short, the government did intervene, but only to scupper the settelement.

Seriously unhelpful.

Are you for real? Who told you that?

 

[Martlet]

So it's all Barber's fault? And Tony should put his hand in his pocket again and pay tens of thousands of pounds to have buses on standby just in case Southern don't provide a service that HE'S ALREADY PAID FOR.

When they've known that there would be a shortage of trains, they've booked buses. They were told there would be a full train service before the game, only to be told during the second half that this wasn't going to happen.

Do you seriously think the club should pay for both the trains AND buses? What if there's a bus company staff dispute? Bring in thousands of London cabbies to drive us all home?

No I don't think that. If I was the club I would be seeking significant compensation from SASTA (probably withholding the last invoice) as they have clearly breached the terms of our agreement with them.

PB suggests in his missive that contingency planning would have been possible, were the club given notice. My comment is whether the club should have done it anyway - given that industrial action appeared reasonably likely after the Reading situation. I'll bet they will be doing it for the next Friday night game - whether there's notice from SASTA or not.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Yes well played Paul Barber - how do we actually resolve this issue ? The Union are right to protect what little rights their staff have left and Southern cant actually provide a good service even when there isnt a strike . Clearly they should lose their franchise and the service should be taken back into public ownership . However that involves a massive climbdown from government . A government that can announce billions in HS2 - a line that doesnt serve the vast majority of working people in this country - whilst ignoring this "political " issue . Ive seen people in tears most days commuting recently . Brighton is almost cut off - property prices will fall and business fail . Feel free to do something about it and sign herre at the very least http://www.bringbackbritishrail.org/franchises/south-central/

As much as Southern are a bunch of CJTC's along with the RMT, please don't do the oh so over the top BS that effectively weakens your own position. Brighton cut off! People in tears most days, twaddle. Just use the facts as they are as lies and exaggeration do not win discussions.

 

[Gazwag]

Use the saved money to either reduce ticket prices or employ more buses.

.

Problem is there is no where for these extra buses to go at the Amex. The Lewes station shuttle which the club has put on for a few games now parks so far away from the ground it not usable by many classes of supporter

 

[Martlet]

Are you for real? Who told you that?

This is (broadly) correct - the DfT sees this as the front line for establishing a more efficient railway, indeed they insisted on the efficiency changes within the franchise award. The quid pro quo being that they support SASTA when it all gets messy with the RMT.

From the Government's perspective, it's a mess, but if they lose this one then the RMT will pull the same trick every time.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Problem is there is no where for these extra buses to go at the Amex. The Lewes station shuttle which the club has put on for a few games now parks so far away from the ground it not usable by many classes of supporter

The Sainsbury West Hove park and ride worked very well, and I've heard no complaints anywhere about the extra buses to Marine Parade.