[News] Awful news coming in from Southport.

[LamieRobertson]

Yeah it’s not for this thread mate.

Deleted….i’d be grateful if you could yours

 

[Eeyore]

was this fella having a psychotic episode though, how long do they last ? apparently he had a knife pre meditated, caught a taxi, refused to pay, and proceeded to attack defenceless children, he knew what he was doing, why target such defenceless souls, because he is weak and they are an easy target. This person has no function in society, will not be able to be rehabilitated. There is a chance he will go to jail, join a gang and become an inside hero for some, as sick as that sounds it is true. Under the current system, the best we can hope for is that he is targeted inside and has his eyes removed with a rusty shank.

Pretty sure that child killers don't become heroes, even amongst the dregs that occupy prisons.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Death penalty is wrong, full stop. Killing (outside of war or kill-or-be-killed self defense) is wrong.

We can't just make it acceptable for the state (i.e., us) to premiditatedly murder someone just so people can feel exultant at the retribution, or to save money.

That said, our base reaction to horror and the desire for revenge is natural. All our base impulses are natural. But they do not serve either ourselves or our species in the long run. Once, we (men) raped and killed on a daily basis. It was natural. It resulted in 'our' women being raped and killed in return. And indeed our kids. Kill them all! We worked out this isn't a good plan (unless you can get away with it) a long time ago, and created Society.

State murder was the last icon that made people feel that revenge is OK. It still seeps into the vigilante spirit, but most of us quell that imperative fairly easily. It is alive and well in the US and elsewhere, with guns and very liberal rules about self defense. If that's your thing, move to a country that executes people and you will feel much more fulfilled, and no longer frustrated by the nanny state.

Or stay here and help our society embed itself more into humanistic mores, kindness, protection, education, and indeed picking up quickly when someone is about to wander down 'wrong-un' boulevard.

Is the death penalty wrong to two sets of parents in Southport this morning?

If we all thought 2024 was a bit of shit show, no one could have ever comprehended this, its just unbelievable

 

[Insel affe]

Pretty sure that child killers don't become heroes, even amongst the dregs that occupy prisons.

There are some sick, sick people out there, you would be surprised.
Why else do some download snuff videos and the likes.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Is the death penalty wrong to two sets of parents in Southport this morning?

If we all thought 2024 was a bit of shit show, no one could have ever comprehended this, its just unbelievable

I thought I'd made it clear. The desire for revenge is human. If it were me and a kid of mine I would (well I won't put it into words...).

That is not the point. If society pandered to all our base instincts, especially the desire for disproportionate revenge when we and ours are violated, there would be no society.

I have often said that if anyone touched any of mine, I would want to track the person down and kill them, but I would expect society to restrain me, by rendering my vigilantism illegal (making me choose to violate the law) and by having police and laws to enact humane justice on the perpetrator.

What our well of base desires (our 'id') tells is has no place in laws. Unrestrained indulgence is for Nero and the Borgias.

Today we need our id for combat (rare) but may exercise it in sport (faux combat) and other forms of competition. We individuals need to retain our own mental balance, growing resilience without growing callous, being strong without overwhelming our family and loved ones, yet not becoming so soft we are crushed but the slightest challenge. Using our brains rather than our impulses.

So the death penalty may be right for some parents in Southport this morning. That would be sad if so, and they need to not wallow in such fantasies.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

was this fella having a psychotic episode though, how long do they last ? apparently he had a knife pre meditated, caught a taxi, refused to pay, and proceeded to attack defenceless children, he knew what he was doing, why target such defenceless souls, because he is weak and they are an easy target. This person has no function in society, will not be able to be rehabilitated. There is a chance he will go to jail, join a gang and become an inside hero for some, as sick as that sounds it is true. Under the current system, the best we can hope for is that he is targeted inside and has his eyes removed with a rusty shank.

He’ll spend his time in segregation/protective custody. He’s a child killer and they are the lowest of the low (along side nonces) as far as the criminal underworld is concerned. He won’t be a hero to anyone. He’ll be a marked man inside like Ian Huntley or Roy Whiting are.

 

[nevergoagain]

Not really. Sanity includes making rational decisions that adhere to larger human mores. Thinking it is OK to kill kids is not sane. And doing bad things and enjoying it does not make you evil but sane, simply because you enjoyed the suffering.

I don't however agree that when someone does something bad when insane they should then automatically be pardoned when they become 'well'. But how often does that happen .....one of my best pals was a social worker who sat on parole boards judging when someone detained under the mental health act was well enough to be released. In most cases they never were. There have however been some headline cock ups. Usual business - ensure proper decisions are taken properly.

If the current case deems the killer insane they will never see the light of day again.

It doesn't take long to find examples with horrendous outcomes. Calocane for one, detained under MHA several times before he carried out the fateful attack. My sympathy lies solely with the victims families. They shouldn't have it in their minds that one day if he's proven to be cured that he could be set free, however unlikely that may be.

 

[dazzer6666]

He’ll spend his time in segregation/protective custody. He’s a child killer and they are the lowest of the low (along side nonces) as far as the criminal underworld is concerned. He won’t be a hero to anyone. He’ll be a marked man inside like Ian Huntley or Roy Whiting are.

Yep. He’ll probably wish he was dead when he’s spent xx years constantly looking over his shoulder waiting for the next attack. Badge of honour inside for the long-termers who manage to take a pop at him.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Sadly a third child, a girl aged 9 has died. Police have also said the two children who died yesterday were girls aged 6&7.

This is exactly the sort of summer activity my girls would have been doing at that age. It really brings it home when you see the ages of these poor defenceless children.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Message from Taylor Swift. Says it all really. 'These were just little kids at a dance class'

 

[Littlemo]

.

 

[rippleman]

Sad and tragic news.

A third young girl has died.

RIP little one.

Southport stabbing latest: Third child dies after Southport dance class stabbing, say police

The three children who have died are aged nine, seven, and six.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[TomandJerry]

Staff from Natterjacks day nursery laid flowers and a heart-shaped artwork, decorated with children’s handprints at the cordon on Hart Street in Southport, the PA news agency reports.

A message on the artwork said: “The brightest stars are now dancing with the angels in heaven. Shine bright little ones, we will never forget your smiles and laughter.”

People, including children, continued to arrive throughout the morning to lay tributes. Some were in tears as they walked away.

 

[Kosh]

I normally steer clear of politics, and real life events on these pages... but today I feel compelled to write something down... bereft as I've found myself of any joy in our current reality.

I've found myself, as a father of two, rather overwhelmed by this latest societal horror... far from being angry, I'm incredibly saddened the someone is capable of doing something so utterly evil... much like we saw with the Manchester post gig bombing... My heart is with the families, so many lives wrecked forever... in what was, I'm sure, a moment of joy turned into a sickening massacre of innocent lives.

Anger for me is futile, I'd prefer to spend my energies on trying to comprehend why things like this happen and how anyone can believe in a God of any sort in a world so chock full of horror.

I foresee a lawless time to come, where we see societal collapse en masse and this kind of thing becomes the tribal norm... we're at a tipping point and I fear where the compounding of too many events like this leading to dark, dark times.

Right now, I think it's important not to call for immediate retribution, making a pile of pathetic martyrs and direct everything into helping and trying to maintain a shred of decency in our fragile society.

I hope the victims rest in peace... I hope the families can find a reason to carry on living... My heart goes out to everyone involved.

 

[dazzer6666]

Staff from Natterjacks day nursery laid flowers and a heart-shaped artwork, decorated with children’s handprints at the cordon on Hart Street in Southport, the PA news agency reports.

A message on the artwork said: “The brightest stars are now dancing with the angels in heaven. Shine bright little ones, we will never forget your smiles and laughter.”

People, including children, continued to arrive throughout the morning to lay tributes. Some were in tears as they walked away.

View attachment 186286

I can’t read any of the reports without tearing up myself. Goodness knows how those directly affected are feeling

 

[TomandJerry]

I can’t read any of the reports without tearing up myself. Goodness knows how those directly affected are feeling

It's such a monstrous situation that you can't help but tear up abit

For those directly affected it'd perhaps be impossible to put into words how they are feeling

 

[PascalGroß Tips]

Just seen this. Bloody hero. I wonder if there might have been more casualties had he not intervened.

"'Hero' personal trainer praised by colleague for intervening in attack"

Clashes in Southport after town mourns in vigil for victims of stabbing attack

Police say items have been thrown towards a local mosque, hours after a vigil for those killed and injured in Monday's stabbing.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[sydney]

i have nothing to add to what has already been said , can only imagine the grief of the families involved , terrible , terrible state of affairs.....poor little girls ffs

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I normally steer clear of politics, and real life events on these pages... but today I feel compelled to write something down... bereft as I've found myself of any joy in our current reality.

I've found myself, as a father of two, rather overwhelmed by this latest societal horror... far from being angry, I'm incredibly saddened the someone is capable of doing something so utterly evil... much like we saw with the Manchester post gig bombing... My heart is with the families, so many lives wrecked forever... in what was, I'm sure, a moment of joy turned into a sickening massacre of innocent lives.

Anger for me is futile, I'd prefer to spend my energies on trying to comprehend why things like this happen and how anyone can believe in a God of any sort in a world so chock full of horror.

I foresee a lawless time to come, where we see societal collapse en masse and this kind of thing becomes the tribal norm... we're at a tipping point and I fear where the compounding of too many events like this leading to dark, dark times.

Right now, I think it's important not to call for immediate retribution, making a pile of pathetic martyrs and direct everything into helping and trying to maintain a shred of decency in our fragile society.

I hope the victims rest in peace... I hope the families can find a reason to carry on living... My heart goes out to everyone involved.

I don't think you are correct. Recency bias.

Did Scotland collapse after Dunblane? And England after Hungerford? The genie may be out of the bottle in terms of what a deranged mind can imagine doing, but it is still simply the same thing; humans more than two standard deviations from the mean running amock.

These days it is normally loners with a screw loose. In the past it was much more likely 'normal' folk would engage in a massacre. We are not doomed.

List of massacres in Great Britain - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's before we dig into nasty 'run of the mill' murders.

That said, it is right to share feelings of dismay, anger and grief. This is a good place to do it. And (in a week or so when the understandably high levels of circulating hormones have normalized)....exhale.

 

[British Bulldog]

Just seen this. Bloody hero. I wonder if there might have been more casualties had he not intervened.

"'Hero' personal trainer praised by colleague for intervening in attack"

Clashes in Southport after town mourns in vigil for victims of stabbing attack

Police say items have been thrown towards a local mosque, hours after a vigil for those killed and injured in Monday's stabbing.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not the only one by the reports

Businessman stabbed in leg after trying to disarm attacker, wife sayspublished at 09:49
09:49​

A local businessman was stabbed in the leg as he tried to put himself between the children and the attacker, the Telegraph is reporting., external

Jonathan Hayes, 63, ran into the dance studio from his office next door after hearing screams, his wife tells the paper. He is due for surgery later.

"He heard screams and went outside, saw the attacker, saw that he had hurt a child and tried to take the knife off him and got stabbed in the leg," his wife, Helen, says.

"He’s very upset that he wasn’t able to be more help. Physically he will be ok, mentally I don’t know.”