[Finance] Autumn Statement

[nicko31]

And unless the young people turnout, we'll be left with these cronies for another 5 years.

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Also don't underestimate the voter suppression of the young and poor

 

[stewart12]

Younger people often say that they think it unlikely they’ll receive a state pension. I think this is alarmism or scaremongering. I wouldn’t offer much hope to any political party whose election manifesto promised to end state pensions.

I agree that it would be outrageous for a party to end state pensions

I do think however, that by the time I approach retirement (I'm 36), the age at which I can claim a state pension will be pretty high, and I'm also not expecting it to be much

It's pretty drummed into us now that you have to have a decent private pension

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

getting in early to say a tax/NI cut is a bribe. of course it is, does that mean its negative for workers? would be better to look at reducing the deficit, but thats not so impressive for the voter.

Isn't there a bloke on here who thinks the deficit is imaginary and all we need to do is print money?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

It's pretty drummed into us now that you have to have a decent private pension

Hopefully it is.

Unfortunately for many 50/60 year olds it wasn't - and many who don't work in the Public Sector will rely on the State Pension.

 

[CorgiRegisteredFriend]

Really think you're aiming at the wrong targets there. Just shows the divisions in our society when a few pounds a week rise (which is what the percentages equate to) for old people and those on benefits is somehow seen as a 'bad thing'. I can't think of another era where a increase in pensions and benefits is seen to be undeserved.

I would expect public sector pay rises to equate to those of pensions and benefits. I am not saying those two groups are undeserving.

 

[Audax]

Devil is in the detail. Been reading about how Hunt has funded the NI cut ... enjoy it next year, as whoever wins the next election won't be able to keep it. Hunt's basically funded it by saying he'll cut (*after* the next election) government departmental spending (by not increasing it in line with inflation). Experts are saying the size of the cut isn't possible.

This is a budget built using smoke and mirrors designed to catch Labour in a post-election trap - it's clearly a "we're going to lose, so let's set up the next government into having to do things that we can then attack".

 

[portslade seagull]

Indeed. Remember that the deficit was the reason Labour were voted out 13 years ago and has tripled under the Tory watch. I'm not really sure why the national debt was a major concern when Labour were running the country but doesn't seem to matter when the Tories wrecklessly increase it.

Hmmm Covid might've had something to do with that, what wouldve been Labour's response out of interest ?, think the costs would be comparable

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Devil is in the detail. Been reading about how Hunt has funded the NI cut ... enjoy it next year, as whoever wins the next election won't be able to keep it. Hunt's basically funded it by saying he'll cut (*after* the next election) government departmental spending (by not increasing it in line with inflation). Experts are saying the size of the cut isn't possible.

This is a budget built using smoke and mirrors designed to catch Labour in a post-election trap - it's clearly a "we're going to lose, so let's set up the next government into having to do things that we can then attack".

Like kicking the Ulster border can down the road?

They have lit blue touch paper everywhere to ensure explosions happen after they have lost the general election.

Part of me is hoping that they win the GE, so it all blows up in their own faces. But it would be better for the country to be shot of this shower. Devious fuckers, though.

 

[beorhthelm]

Devil is in the detail. Been reading about how Hunt has funded the NI cut ... enjoy it next year, as whoever wins the next election won't be able to keep it. Hunt's basically funded it by saying he'll cut (*after* the next election) government departmental spending (by not increasing it in line with inflation). Experts are saying the size of the cut isn't possible.

This is a budget built using smoke and mirrors designed to catch Labour in a post-election trap - it's clearly a "we're going to lose, so let's set up the next government into having to do things that we can then attack".

that doesn't sound right. that would be unfunded and Labour would have jolly well said so, along with OBR and IFS. its funded by less borrowing, as we haven't had the forecast recession.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Hmmm Covid might've had something to do with that, what wouldve been Labour's response out of interest ?, think the costs would be comparable

You may be right and maybe Labour's handling of COVID would have consisted of a self confessed 'narcissistic orgy' at the centre of Government, not understanding any of the science or statistics presented to them, lurching around 'like a trolley with dodgy wheels' reversing decisions on an hourly basis and setting up an illegal fast track PPE system for friends and family to take tens of millions out of the NHS.

They may well have been comparable, nobody knows

 

[zefarelly]

Hopefully it is.

Unfortunately for many 50/60 year olds it wasn't - and many who don't work in the Public Sector will rely on the State Pension.

@ 52, a pension has only become a realistic possibility since I went back to being employed 4 years ago . . . .thwere was nothing before that, it wasn't a legal requirement. And I never earned enough to be able to save . . . lifes a little easier now, thankfully, and I don't think pensions are trhe best investment, only for the tax break really. My best investment over the last 20 years has been on wheels, and the lock ups they live in.

 

[drew]

Think we need to stop looking at the Old Age Pension as a benefit, I, and many like me, have paid a stack of cash into the system to be paid this in our old age, as others will be going forward. There are also far more incentives and education now about providing for your latter years. Let's not make pensioners feel like scroungers the moment they start enjoying the fruits of 40+ years labour.

The money you paid in isn't coming back to you. What you paid in was paying the pensions of others whilst you worked. When you retire, it will be those in employment paying tax that fund your state pension.

A state pension is a benefit, simple as.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

https://assets.publishing.service.g...473_Autumn_Statement_Nov_23_Accessible_v3.pdf

The Autumn Statement is prepared by HM Treasury.

Maybe being thick, but I’m unsure of the workings of the Civil Servants who put this together. Do RS & JH come up with a basic wish list and tell them to put some flesh on the bones?

When Labour win the next GE will the same Treasury team then provide the same service to KS & RR?

Or do you believe that PM’s and Cabinet Ministers are capable of doing it themselves.

(I failed Economics A-Level, but passed Pure Maths, Applied Maths and Physics hence my ignorance on the subject)

 

[drew]

Hmmm Covid might've had something to do with that, what wouldve been Labour's response out of interest ?, think the costs would be comparable

Hmmmmm, a global financial crisis might have been the reason for the deficit under labour!!! What would the Tories have done then? Think their view was to let the banks crash.

 

[Milano]

Think we need to stop looking at the Old Age Pension as a benefit, I, and many like me, have paid a stack of cash into the system to be paid this in our old age, as others will be going forward. There are also far more incentives and education now about providing for your latter years. Let's not make pensioners feel like scroungers the moment they start enjoying the fruits of 40+ years labour.

Your NI is/was paying for the then pensioners at the time you were earning it. You will be reliant on the current NI payers to fund your state pension when the time comes (as will I). So it's rather important that taxpayers of tomorrow exist and contribute. Destroying state education doesn't really achieve that....

 

[Si Gull]

I agree that it would be outrageous for a party to end state pensions

I do think however, that by the time I approach retirement (I'm 36), the age at which I can claim a state pension will be pretty high, and I'm also not expecting it to be much

It's pretty drummed into us now that you have to have a decent private pension

It was drummed into me, so I set one up with a solid, respectable company, Equitable Life, who proceeded to lose most if it when they collapsed. Subsequent efforts haven't exactly been a roaring success with a litany of excuses as to why performance isn't matching expectations. Grifters, the lot of them.

 

[Audax]

that doesn't sound right. that would be unfunded and Labour would have jolly well said so, along with OBR and IFS. its funded by less borrowing, as we haven't had the forecast recession.

The OBR and IFS are among the sources for my post and interpretation of what's been announced. For example:

- Hunt's calculations include an assumption that Fuel Duty will go up in line with announced policy. But that's something that hasn't happened in so long that the OBR has essentially rubbished that:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...080998c7611b7d#block-655e29698f080998c7611b7d

- Resolution Foundation (third paragraph, detailing how the NI cut is funded):


- And the IFS here, with what I take as damning verdict:

https://ifs.org.uk/Autumn-Statement-2023-response

 

[Nicks]

Isn't there a bloke on here who thinks the deficit is imaginary and all we need to do is print money?

Kier Starmer

 

[Horses Arse]

Devil is in the detail. Been reading about how Hunt has funded the NI cut ... enjoy it next year, as whoever wins the next election won't be able to keep it. Hunt's basically funded it by saying he'll cut (*after* the next election) government departmental spending (by not increasing it in line with inflation). Experts are saying the size of the cut isn't possible.

This is a budget built using smoke and mirrors designed to catch Labour in a post-election trap - it's clearly a "we're going to lose, so let's set up the next government into having to do things that we can then attack".

Sounds about right. This mug nation will fall for it and vote the frauds back, blaming a shitened Labour government for all the ills. A decade later and the labour party will be even shitier and the same thing happens. Both parties getting ever more shitier and incompetent, with the more competent of the two getting the blame each time.

What a time to be alive!

 

[Sorrel]

I thought the ‘statement’ was ok; we know they are not going to try anything too radical now (c.f. Kwasi Kwarteng). My self-employed relations liked it; the NI cut for employees was welcome too - focused on those that need it more.

In terms of elections it’s probably designed as a challenge to force parties to say they won’t be putting up tax or NI. It does suggest the thresholds are not going to be raised anytime soon.