[Cricket] Australia getting a pasting ... again

[Gwylan]

After being well beaten in the first test, Pakistan are hitting Australia all over the park again . It's currently 280-2, with another ton for Younis.

Pakistan aren't that great a team, so it's worrying we were beaten so easily by Australia last winter (even taking into account the lack of pace on their wickets)

 

[spring hall convert]

Any fule know this Australia side aren't going to go well in the sub continent. They don't have any decent spinners and they aren't the most patient batting side.

 

[Gwylan]

Any fule know this Australia side aren't going to go well in the sub continent. They don't have any decent spinners and they aren't the most patient batting side.

It's not in the sub-continent - it's in Abu Dhabi

I take your point about spinners - although Pakistan's aren't exactly world beaters - but their batting is pretty decent. Warner's a bit of a dasher (albeit a good one) while Clarke, Rogers and Smith can build an innings.

 

[spring hall convert]

It's not in the sub-continent - it's in Abu Dhabi

I take your point about spinners - although Pakistan's aren't exactly world beaters - but their batting is pretty decent. Warner's a bit of a dasher (albeit a good one) while Clarke, Rogers and Smith can build an innings.

Abu Dhabi is subconinent x 10 in terms of the pitch. The lowest, slowest wickets known to man. We struggled badly with them a while back.

 

[Worthingite]

Any fule know this Australia side aren't going to go well in the sub continent. They don't have any decent spinners and they aren't the most patient batting side.

This. Johnson has no opportunity to be the (successful) flat track bully he is. I've thought for a long time that the Aussies have a very suspect batting order, and it was because we were so poor in Aus that they won, not because they were so good. That said I have no faith at all in our current crop next year- but I would suspect the Aussies are saying that too, with Clarke, Bailey and Haddin all the wrong side of 30. The only player in the Baggy Green that truly frightens me is Steve Smith- probably a future test captain and a steady batsman in the Ponting mould.

 

[Gwylan]

This. Johnson has no opportunity to be the (successful) flat track bully he is. I've thought for a long time that the Aussies have a very suspect batting order, and it was because we were so poor in Aus that they won, not because they were so good. That said I have no faith at all in our current crop next year- but I would suspect the Aussies are saying that too, with Clarke, Bailey and Haddin all the wrong side of 30. The only player in the Baggy Green that truly frightens me is Steve Smith- probably a future test captain and a steady batsman in the Ponting mould.

Yes, fair points. Johnson is clearly a lot less lethal away from Oz.

As for the batting, you missed out Warner - he's only 28 and has a batting average of nearly 48. Bailey's not in the side now and Clarke is only 33, he's got a few more years in him. The two on borrowed time are Rogers (Australia really need a decent opener) and Haddin, and there are plenty to step into his shoes, probably Paine, although Whiteman may be a possibility if he has another decent reason - perhaps England should call him up first.

 

[Worthingite]

Yes, fair points. Johnson is clearly a lot less lethal away from Oz.

As for the batting, you missed out Warner - he's only 28 and has a batting average of nearly 48. Bailey's not in the side now and Clarke is only 33, he's got a few more years in him. The two on borrowed time are Rogers (Australia really need a decent opener) and Haddin, and there are plenty to step into his shoes, probably Paine, although Whiteman may be a possibility if he has another decent reason - perhaps England should call him up first.

I was thinking of Rogers when I said Bailey!!!!

Whatever happened to that kiddie they had when they last came over to the uk? The one that set the record for a last batsman? I thought he was their next big thing?!?!

 

[Uncle Buck]

This match goes to prove that next summer we have to make the wickets to suit our bowlers and not to ensure that the ECB get 5 days worth of takings.

 

[Braggfan]

This. Johnson has no opportunity to be the (successful) flat track bully he is. I've thought for a long time that the Aussies have a very suspect batting order, and it was because we were so poor in Aus that they won, not because they were so good. That said I have no faith at all in our current crop next year- but I would suspect the Aussies are saying that too, with Clarke, Bailey and Haddin all the wrong side of 30. The only player in the Baggy Green that truly frightens me is Steve Smith- probably a future test captain and a steady batsman in the Ponting mould.

I've never been a big fan of Smith's to be honest but in fairness he's gone away and worked on his batting and was decent for them last year. Thing with Smith is he's only 25 it just feels like he's been around for ages, he does seem to be improving & he can still get better. Phil Hughes is another one in that category, also only 25 so younger enough to get better. I'd conceed Smith has had good games even series for Australia, but I don't really think he's a world class batsman and I'm just not scared of him.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Bet it's lovely and hot out there……spinners in long sleeves though eh!?

 

[Lady Whistledown]

This. Johnson has no opportunity to be the (successful) flat track bully he is. I've thought for a long time that the Aussies have a very suspect batting order, and it was because we were so poor in Aus that they won, not because they were so good. That said I have no faith at all in our current crop next year- but I would suspect the Aussies are saying that too, with Clarke, Bailey and Haddin all the wrong side of 30. The only player in the Baggy Green that truly frightens me is Steve Smith- probably a future test captain and a steady batsman in the Ponting mould.

I read an article by an Australian cricket writer the other day which pretty much said this. He suggested that, whilst their pace bowling attack is reasonable, they are essentially flat track bullies, who lack the guile to exploit surfaces which aren't quite to their liking. He also pointed out the weaknesses in their batting. Only Warner has excelled this year, and Clarke is viewed as being in a slump, whilst the likes of Chris Rogers are little more than journeymen who were able to take advantage of an England side having an absolute crisis of confidence. Someone like Phil Hughes, the next in line to step up (again) when the next man fails, has never ever cemented his place as a Test cricketer after being destroyed in England a few years back.

 

[El Presidente]

I think KP will rise to the occasion and give it large to Johnson next summer.

 

[Braggfan]

I read an article by an Australian cricket writer the other day which pretty much said this. He suggested that, whilst their pace bowling attack is reasonable, they are essentially flat track bullies, who lack the guile to exploit surfaces which aren't quite to their liking. He also pointed out the weaknesses in their batting. Only Warner has excelled this year, and Clarke is viewed as being in a slump, whilst the likes of Chris Rogers are little more than journeymen who were able to take advantage of an England side having an absolute crisis of confidence. Someone like Phil Hughes, the next in line to step up (again) when the next man fails, has never ever cemented his place as a Test cricketer after being destroyed in England a few years back.

Phil Hughes is someone who has never fulfilled his potential. It feels like he's been around for ages and he alwasy scores well in the Sheffield Shield but then doesn't turn up in tests. I have a horrible feeling sooner or later he's going to turn out a great series against us.

 

[Gwylan]

I read an article by an Australian cricket writer the other day which pretty much said this. He suggested that, whilst their pace bowling attack is reasonable, they are essentially flat track bullies, who lack the guile to exploit surfaces which aren't quite to their liking.

That's slightly unfair on Harris who has an average of 22 and has taken wickets on all sorts of surfaces - his problem is that he's always injured (as he is at the moment)

Only Warner has excelled this year, and Clarke is viewed as being in a slump, whilst the likes of Chris Rogers are little more than journeymen who were able to take advantage of an England side having an absolute crisis of confidence. Someone like Phil Hughes, the next in line to step up (again) when the next man fails, has never ever cemented his place as a Test cricketer after being destroyed in England a few years back.

Clarke, slump? He got 161 and 69 in the two internationals prior to the last test. In the SA test series, he averaged 55 and in the test series before that he averaged 40; if the Aussies deem that a slump, I wish we had a few more batsmen in a slump. I agree about Rogers though: a good county player but not a world-beating batsman. Phil Hughes has a problem with his technique that will always get him found out.

The issue is not whether Australia are poor or not - I don't think they're that great, which is why they're being taken to pieces by Pakistan, but how they beat us so easily. That wasn't all down to pitches favouring them

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I think KP will rise to the occasion and give it large to Johnson next summer.

What, on the SkySports commentary panel?

 

[Braggfan]

The interesting thing about Australia last year was before Lehmann came in they were awful. Bringing Haddin and Johnson back was a brilliant move, as was the wiley old Rogers. But the truth is take them out and that Australia squad looks threadbare. The main thing Australia really have going for them is Lehmann as I think he can get the best out of players, and perhaps get a threadbare team or weakened team to overachieve.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Clarke, slump? He got 161 and 69 in the two internationals prior to the last test. In the SA test series, he averaged 55 and in the test series before that he averaged 40; if the Aussies deem that a slump, I wish we had a few more batsmen in a slump. I agree about Rogers though: a good county player but not a world-beating batsman. Phil Hughes has a problem with his technique that will always get him found out.

The issue is not whether Australia are poor or not - I don't think they're that great, which is why they're being taken to pieces by Pakistan, but how they beat us so easily. That wasn't all down to pitches favouring them

It was the Australian journalist who referred to the Clarke "slump" (I think he did qualify that by saying he'd scored runs in a previous series), but I admit I haven't fully paid attention to all their games this year

I don't think the 5-0 result last winter was any more a reflection of the Australians' brilliance than the result in the previous series in England reflected our own status. Everyone saw the series in England was much closer than results suggested. I just think the Aussies went into the winter series really fired up, they hammered them in the first game, and as we've seen, all was not well behind the scenes in the England camp, and they took full advantage. It showed in the end because we nearly always used to win the dead rubber match against them, once the pressure was off. In that series, it was quite apparent that the England players couldn't even be arsed to raise themselves for that match, such was the mood in the camp. But to compare the sides overall, there's no way Australia were/are superior to the extent that a 5-0 thrashing suggests.

Pakistan are a funny sort of side too, equally capable of brilliance or flakiness. Australia's record against them away from home has never been that good, has it?

 

[Braggfan]

That's slightly unfair on Harris who has an average of 22 and has taken wickets on all sorts of surfaces - his problem is that he's always injured (as he is at the moment)



Clarke, slump? He got 161 and 69 in the two internationals prior to the last test. In the SA test series, he averaged 55 and in the test series before that he averaged 40; if the Aussies deem that a slump, I wish we had a few more batsmen in a slump. I agree about Rogers though: a good county player but not a world-beating batsman. Phil Hughes has a problem with his technique that will always get him found out.

The issue is not whether Australia are poor or not - I don't think they're that great, which is why they're being taken to pieces by Pakistan, but how they beat us so easily. That wasn't all down to pitches favouring them

They're not great but the ease at which they beat us was a combination of several things, personaly I think the key was how mentally weak we were. That Ashes series down there was the worst I've seen any side have, ever. Their successes came from bringing experienced heads such as Haddin and Rogers back, getting Johnson's head on right, combined with Lehmann getting them to play with some belief in themselves. On the polar opposite end of the spectrum, our players didn't want to be there, a couple of them going home early clearly didn't help as well. When thing's got tough there was no one to show any spine. Unfortunatley the question is have we got any better since then, I think the verdict is out. If we get some confidence back in our ability then I think it'll be close next year.

 

[Gwylan]

Pakistan are a funny sort of side too, equally capable of brilliance or flakiness. Australia's record against them away from home has never been that good, has it?

One thing that should be mentioned is Misbah's brilliance, not enough attention has been paid to this. He has taken a rabble, reeling from its three best pace bowlers banned for fixing, its best spinner banned for throwing and all sorts of politicking and has turned them into a formidable side. Like Lehrmann with Australia, Misbah has got the side playing better than its constituent parts - Pakistan normally do the opposite.

Thankfully he's in his 40s so normal service will be resumed shortly

 

[Gwylan]

Australia need a little matter of 603 to win this - their boys are getting a hell of a beating.

And top work from Misbah, the joint fastest test century (his second ton in the match)