[Albion] Assuming we survive, is CH the right man for 19/20?

[Weststander]

Another day, this thread trundles on.

It's the same yes from me, retain Chris. He's a very good manager and an exceptional person, we owe him our loyalty. Besides, TB will not be sacking him.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I don't think all of those who've expressed a negative opinion of CH can be classed as 'bedwetters' tbf. Some, yes. But others have been quite honest in saying that they don't care if we're doing what we need to do in order to survive in the Prem: they find the football 'boring' and have had enough of it. Obviously that's fair enough, everyone's allowed an opinion.

This is all SO familiar to what happened last time we were in the top division - and not just under Mike Bailey. By the winter of 79 discontent had set in and the crowds had plummeted as fans were no longer seeing the likes of Ward and Maybank dismantle 2nd-rate defences. The difference this time is that firstly people have bough STs and therefore pretty much have to attend, and also, currently, there are enough people waiting in the wings to take the place of those who fall by the wayside.

Talking of season ticket holders, the last 2 seasons at home:
P34 W13 D12 L9 F41 A41 pts51

Not a lot of patience being shown imho. Can understand those that travel the length and breadth of the country being more annoyed, but we have been served up with some cracking games of football in those 34 premier league home games. Of course not all the time, but only 9 defeats in 34 outings is some achievement.

We've had a lot more injury disruption this season, and signings haven't had such an impact as say Ryan, Propper, Gross and Izquierdo did last year. Think we'll be okay, and do believe Chris is the right person to kick us on in the summer.

 

[Commander]

No, for me. Hughton's is clearly a very good man manager and an excellent coach but he is too cautious tactically and is too inflexible for the Premier League. The way we play is a window into the soul of the man, solid, reliable, undemonstrative - the very opposite of mercurial.

It's unfortunate but this means that in the Premier League he cannot escape his own shadow, constantly looking over his shoulder at the ghost of defeat rather than the horizon of victory.

It's relatively easy to determine the evidence for this, our shocking chance creation ratio both playing 411 and 433, our form since moving to 433 to try an improve that - because Hughton plays it as a 451, our abysmal away form in the Championship and Premier League and our really poor record against the teams around us this season.

In the Championship Hughton played a solid 442, a tried and trusted means of promotion for many sides before and will be for many sides in the future. Defensively well drilled and with width and attacking brio up front. Not difficult strategically, of course, but it takes an excellent coach and man manager to execute the plan. Hughton is, so he was successful.

Recently the two home games against Huddersfield and Burnley have really exposed his shortcomings as manager. In fact so depressing were they that I (correctly) swerved the Saints game as it was obvious what was coming.

Huddersfield, the worst team in the league and the opportunity to switch play quickly through their 'gegenpress' on the counter with Andone and Murray up front with Andone in the 'Baldock' role. Tried and trusted Championship (for that was the level of the opponent) tactics that will work, surely? No, the CH Solution? 451, 4, 5 ****ing one at home to Huddersfield, with Solly March on the right to makes matters worse when my three-legged-dog has a better right foot. 'Oh look Solly's got the ball on the right, go on Solly take him on, oh, he's turned inside and slowed the play down, again'. How many times that day did we see this? To add insult to injury this destroys any thinking advantage Murray has had with his movement and leaves him turned, devoid of pace and isolated against his marker. Murray needs quick balls that reward his intelligent movement.

Burnley - what a ****ing shambles. One would have to have been living on Mars, for 40 years since Leighton James was playing, with your head buried in red mud not to understand how Burnley play. And that you have to be Man City or Spurs to play 433 against it. When they have the ball it bypasses midfield utterly negating the effectiveness or otherwise of the 451 that CH deployed to control midfield. When we had the ball in a 433 moving forward Burnley's 442 is really tough to break though because the only way that happens is to play possession football through the thirds using full backs for width. The trouble is this meant that our narrow midfield then leaves the full-back exposed to two Burnley players, the winger and the full back, if our full back does not retain possession - witness Woods' first half goal.

Further it meant that Burnley's back line had an untroubled day, with only Murray to concern them.

We do not have the players for a true 433, Hughton knows this, which is why he sends them out 451. We couldn't retain possession against Millwall ffs, how bad does it need to be before his caution and intransigence is overcome and he reverts back to 442 or 4411? What's the worst that can happen? Because it sure as ****ing certain can't be any worse than the dross we've been watching since December.

Against Millwall away, Palace at home and Palace away, Hughton got lucky, really lucky. The 'Wall keeper threw it in his own net in the last minute, Duffy saw a red mist, got sent-off and Murray got injured. On came Balogun and Andone to score. CH would never ever have brought on Andone in a 441 if Murray had not been injured - but it was the perfect substitution because pace was the requirement. And a Knocky wonder goal at Selhurst Park.

Did the performances merit these outcomes? Only at Selhurst perhaps, and there he was playing for a draw, let's be honest.

Ironically, these tactics may serve us well on Saturday, but this proves the point. CH is not flexible enough, adventurous enough, mercurial enough to take the game to the opposition when we should be. In a way it's easier to set-up against City, it's not so easy to unpick the defensive walls of lower-table opponents.

Legend? Yes. Here next season? I hope not, sorry.

Be careful what we wish for? Certainly. Could we go down as a result of instability? Of course. Do I want to watch Hughtonball for another season? No.

I think we should keep him for another season, but I think that's an excellent summing up of the situation. Well done.

I'd rather be on the golf course frankly.

Alright Gus.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The challenge with improving in the Premier league is convincing players to sign.
CH has proven to be an excellent manager, particularly in getting the best out of the players available.

Our facilities and location have given us the edge to a certain extent, but that has only gotten us so far.
However the longer we stick around and dare I say having a decent cup run, the more appealing we will be.

Although the improvements have not been fast enough for many, there have undoubtedly been improvements each season under CH
2019/20 - Will need to see a further upgrade to the first team, before we can judge whether Chris is up to the job or not.

 

[Pavilionaire]

One thing about Hughton is that he usually gives players a fair chance. I'm sure most of us have wanted him to start a player only to see that player left on the bench, yet when Chris gives them a start they might have a poor game. This is especially true of our attacking players.

The likes of Knockaert, March, Bissouma, Stephens even have got into some great positions without having the end product and it must be very frustrating for Chris.

 

[TSB]

No. This season has been dismal. More of the same next season is a very gloomy prospect.

It's comforting to know that [MENTION=36]Titanic[/MENTION] has the minority (idiot) view on football as well as politics.

What an embarrassing thread. By someone who proved, over the summer, to be an embarrassing muppet with no inside knowledge despite his claims.

 

[Weststander]

The challenge with improving in the Premier league is convincing players to sign.
CH has proven to be an excellent manager, particularly in getting the best out of the players available.

Our facilities and location have given us the edge to a certain extent, but that has only gotten us so far.
However the longer we stick around and dare I say having a decent cup run, the more appealing we will be.

Although the improvements have not been fast enough for many, there have undoubtedly been improvements each season under CH
2019/20 - Will need to see a further upgrade to the first team, before we can judge whether Chris is up to the job or not.

Players follow the money. We’re relatively modest payers up to now.

 

[Machiavelli]

It's comforting to know that [MENTION=36]Titanic[/MENTION] has the minority (idiot) view on football as well as politics.

What an embarrassing thread. By someone who proved, over the summer, to be an embarrassing muppet with no inside knowledge despite his claims.

[MENTION=36]Titanic[/MENTION] has the majority view on politics. To pretend otherwise is to deny the last three centuries of British political history.

 

[Titanic]

[MENTION=36]Titanic[/MENTION] has the majority view on politics. To pretend otherwise is to deny the last three centuries of British political history.

Let's try and stick to football on this thread.

I have been supporting the Albion for 47 years... I can't begin to describe how much enjoyment they have brought to my life, and my family and friends, in that time.

Apart from Palace (and thank God for Palace and the 6 points - what a mess we would be in without them!) - how many games have you come away from this season with a real 'buzz'?

A: Man Utd at home and West Ham away for me.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Maybe we should try the Southampton route 7 managers in a few seasons ...I mean look at the success they’ve enjoyed

 

[LamieRobertson]

Let's try and stick to football on this thread.

I have been supporting the Albion for 47 years... I can't begin to describe how much enjoyment they have brought to my life, and my family and friends, in that time.

Apart from Palace (and thank God for Palace and the 6 points - what a mess we would be in without them!) - how many games have you come away from this season with a real 'buzz'?

A: Man Utd at home and West Ham away for me.

I think many understand that we are going through that second season syndrome and perhaps are a little more patient having watched Brighton for so long

 

[Pavilionaire]

Maybe we should try the Southampton route 7 managers in a few seasons ...I mean look at the success they’ve enjoyed

They didn't exactly want to get rid of Pochettino.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

And I disagree. I think his tactics and management are absolutely perfect to keeping a club in the Prem. Highly unlikely to get top half. But also not going to do a Huddersfield. That's all we need right now. Brighton are building something big. Stadium. Facilities. International partnerships. A youth set up full of talent. A larger fan base. A reputation as a premier league club. A great recruitment team. Sponsorships. Income. Talented coaches top to bottom.

All of that should have us experiencing top level football for decades to come, under all types of managers, with all kinds of players, good seasons, bad seasons, amazing seasons. Why would anyone risk throwing it away in a battle to finish 10th in 2020. Why would that even matter, if set against the risk of falling out before we're ready?

I think those saying that we're just Brighton, punching above our weight, careful what we wish for, are also missing the point a little. There's a lot to wish for - which is precisely why we need CH at this time in our history.

Excellent post.

Although I have applied a slight amendment for how I see things.

 

[LamieRobertson]

They didn't exactly want to get rid of Pochettino.

Erm still leaves about five they did want to

 

[Machiavelli]

Let's try and stick to football on this thread.

I have been supporting the Albion for 47 years... I can't begin to describe how much enjoyment they have brought to my life, and my family and friends, in that time.

Apart from Palace (and thank God for Palace and the 6 points - what a mess we would be in without them!) - how many games have you come away from this season with a real 'buzz'?

A: Man Utd at home and West Ham away for me.

I'm more than happy with your proposal, and it wasn't me that raised the interloping subject. Apologies for sustaining it.

In terms of your question, it's tricky. By 'buzz' and the games you've selected, you seem to be getting at the football played alongside result. I'd agree with Palace and Man U, but not really West Ham, having been to all of them.

Despite the fact that our attacking football was uninspiring, I really enjoyed Newcastle, and just loved the defensive performance, solidity, and eking out the result. But I think your question reveals that this season far more than last, we've won games when our performance has been poor in an attacking sense, and lost games when our performance has been decent. In short, I find it difficult to answer.

 

[Scunner]

I respect anyone who thinks that we should stick by Hughton, but my suspicion is that this is motivated by loyalty and sentiment rather than cold, rational, objective thought processes.

Of course we should be pragmatic in our approach to consolidate our position in the PL. However, this was not the question, the question is 'is CH the right man for 19/20?' And I am saying no for two demonstrable reasons: 1) he is not attacking enough 2) he is not flexible enough.

His way of playing is perfect for 10 of the 20 teams we face, it is crap for the other 10, the lower 10. 10 teams that we should attack and we should be positive against. he cannot break-out of his straitjacket, and that has really cost us this season, at home especially.

Therefore the team is not *progressing* it is *regressing*. We have become objectively worse, not only in comparison to last season, but also with comparison to the first half of this season.

CH's natural caution and intransigence is not going to *progress* the club next season, IMO. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

 

[kjgood]

I'm stuggling to decide whether its a yes or no. He's done a brilliant job over his time at the club. He conducts himself with nothing but sheer class, he rarely says anything wrong and we rarely get issues inside the club. Everything points to a mangement period where everything is moving forward in a controlled and structured way. Everyone says how lucky we are to have such a great guy in charge.

But!!!! I have to agree from an uneducated fans position (Thats me) we seem disjointed on the field, the number of times I've thought and shouted something like '''For Gods sake go for it'' the last time on Saturday, we seem so slow thinking and moving until we go one behind then suddenly its all Brighton.

Do I want him to be in post next season? Lets wait and see where we finish and its not a done deal yet, the Cardiff game will be massive if they beat Burnley.

 

[8049]

Therefore the team is not *progressing* it is *regressing*. We have become objectively worse, not only in comparison to last season, but also with comparison to the first half of this season.

What measure are you using that shows we're objectively worse than last season?

 

[Weststander]

Maybe we should try the Southampton route 7 managers in a few seasons ...I mean look at the success they’ve enjoyed

Yes but ... each one took them to that new elusive level.

 

[8049]

What measure are you using that shows we're objectively worse than last season?

Here are comparative stats from the Premier League site for this year and last year





By my reckoning
Better than last season
More average goals per game
Better cross accuracy
Fewer own goals

The same as last year
Shooting accuracy
Pass accuracy
Goals conceded per game

Worse
Tackle success
Errors leading to goals
Red cards

Obviously have to wait until end of the season but from this things are not objectively worse. They may be subjectively worse, in that people aren't enjoying the games as much but that is a matter of opinion not fact - unless there's an entertainment index I'm not aware of.