[Albion] Are YOU falling out of love with Roberto De Zerbi?

[jackalbion]

I thought you said in your previous post that Potter didn't have consistency in his locker?
Seriously though, looking at the results from that Norwich game on, I don't see any reason to doubt we could (I won't say would because that's obviously impossible to know) have finished 6th with any manager of roughly Potter or RDZ's level. We just had a really good team by that point.

Edit: I don't want that to come across as pro or anti Potter or De Zerbi, I'm just generally agnostic about how much difference any of them make.

But this is the problem, Potter had a lot of spells like this, and then would follow it up with a spell of being completely abject. The consistency lasted a few months and then would go pear shaped. Just before this spell with a win against Watford we were looking at Europe and 6 games later relegation. Same with at the beginning of the season, a fantastic start (4 Wins in 5) and then no wins in the next 10. You see this pattern in the 2020/21 season. With three straight wins in the early part of 2021 and then followed by 2 draws and 3 losses. He showed this at Chelsea as well, not being able to consistently put together results. He also didn't send players to new heights, I and many were quite happy to let Solly go before RDZ came in, I think any debate that Potter and RDZ are anyway near the same level is very very very wide of the mark. There are so many factors to the reasoning for the inconsistency this season, potter never had those excuses (injuries, European fixture congestion, fatigue)/

 

[jackalbion]

I'm NOT 'doing this'. I was simply trying to illustrate that anyone highlighting ONE single game to make a point, was pointless.

But with all respect Burnley are not the worst team, we have scored 11 goals past them this season, where as in a similar season, Potter's team scored 0.

 

[Beanstalk]

He´s a small man with small mentality pretending to be ambitious and clever.
"I am really lucky to be this coach of this team with these players. I am very pleased with the passion they have, they have everything," he said.
"You can't forget we are Brighton. Sometimes they forget we are Brighton. We are not Manchester United, Manchester City, Newcastle or Arsenal, we are still Brighton.
"The other eight or nine big teams in the Premier League they do not sell their big players."
Imagine saying that when beating a good team playing brilliant football "dont forget how bad we are" basically. Entertaining my arse

All I'm going to give you from this is that he is small. 5'7 is tiny in football.

Anyway we had somewhere between the 19th and 16th biggest wage bill in the league last season depending on your sauce. So yeah, he's not lying is he?

I genuinely don't see the problem with his comments, they are all true, and he said he's proud to coach the players and be Brighton manager. I read his second line as saying, we are playing above our level and that we are David in comparison to the Goliaths of this league. Which is factually correct. I don't think he's at all implying we are bad, or that we shouldn't dream big (I don't think anyone can accuse RDZ of reigning in ambitions), but that it is important to remember that we're the underdogs here, and what we're achieving is not only great, but yes, entertaining - who doesn't love an underdog story eh?

If you haven't found RDZ's time with us, at the very least, entertaining, then I'm not sure you're ever going to find that with the Albion.

 

[Exilegull]

But this is the problem, Potter had a lot of spells like this, and then would follow it up with a spell of being completely abject. The consistency lasted a few months and then would go pear shaped. Just before this spell with a win against Watford we were looking at Europe and 6 games later relegation. Same with at the beginning of the season, a fantastic start (4 Wins in 5) and then no wins in the next 10. You see this pattern in the 2020/21 season. With three straight wins in the early part of 2021 and then followed by 2 draws and 3 losses. He showed this at Chelsea as well, not being able to consistently put together results. He also didn't send players to new heights, I and many were quite happy to let Solly go before RDZ came in, I think any debate that Potter and RDZ are anyway near the same level is very very very wide of the mark. There are so many factors to the reasoning for the inconsistency this season, potter never had those excuses (injuries, European fixture congestion, fatigue)/

I dont get the whole Potter not taking players to new heights when we built a class team based on largely unknown cheap players. Trossard was a different level when he left from when he came. Bissouma for Hughton and Bissouma for Potter. Alexis a lot better as time went on Caicedo we will never know what he´d looked like if playing from start Dan Burn improved a lot probably. Multiple times with Potter we played 10-12 games in a month because Covid we are never facing that congestion again. Long term injuries to Lamptey when he was our only quick players long term injuries to March Welbeck. Same problem as Roberto same problems as nearly all current PL managers

 

[Exilegull]

All I'm going to give you from this is that he is small. 5'7 is tiny in football.

Anyway we had somewhere between the 19th and 16th biggest wage bill in the league last season depending on your sauce. So yeah, he's not lying is he?

I genuinely don't see the problem with his comments, they are all true, and he said he's proud to coach the players and be Brighton manager. I read his second line as saying, we are playing above our level and that we are David in comparison to the Goliaths of this league. Which is factually correct. I don't think he's at all implying we are bad, or that we shouldn't dream big (I don't think anyone can accuse RDZ of reigning in ambitions), but that it is important to remember that we're the underdogs here, and what we're achieving is not only great, but yes, entertaining - who doesn't love an underdog story eh?

If you haven't found RDZ's time with us, at the very least, entertaining, then I'm not sure you're ever going to find that with the Albion.

Saying remember we´re Brighton not as good or big as the best teams after winning against Spurs is a more belittling comment than the history lesson one imho and would seen that way if uttered by the Solihull dullard but all of a sudden going out in media saying how small and shit we are resonates with the people following the dumb Zerbi cult. As I said looking forward to see him going bring in anyone else.

 

[Beanstalk]

Not many results in there to match the stuffings we’ve had this season alone though, and the goals for in the last few months are very similar

But unlike Potter the stuffings weren't part of really long suffering runs. We followed our loss to Villa with a wonderful 2-2 draw in our first ever European away game at one of the most menacing stadiums in the world. The 4-0 loss to Luton was followed by a 4-1 battering of Palace (which was a joy). The loss to Roma (which was entirely forgivable tbh - a step too far in a wonderful adventure) was followed up with a win against Forest and a face-saving top performance against Roma.

Don't get me wrong, Potter was a good coach who developed an incredibly solid defence, but we went on some unbelievably awful runs under him that lasted months. I'd take losing 4-0 a few times a season if it means the majority of the time we're exciting to watch offensively. We scored 161 in 134 games under Potter. We've scored 158 in 83 under RDZ. RDZ is also only 6 wins behind Potter's total already.

 

[Justice]

I mean, there's cherry picking your facts and there's whatever the hell this is.
"We were shit under Potter. No, not in his last game, the one before. Don't look at any games further back than that though, just his penultimate game."

You could say the same about that Leicester win I’ve seen it mentioned so many times as a Potter justification.

 

[Beanstalk]

Saying remember we´re Brighton not as good or big as the best teams after winning against Spurs is a more belittling comment than the history lesson one imho and would seen that way if uttered by the Solihull dullard but all of a sudden going out in media saying how small and shit we are resonates with the people following the dumb Zerbi cult. As I said looking forward to see him going bring in anyone else.

I'm not in a cult, and it's not more belittling to fans than directly telling them to have a history lesson on their own club. We have a smaller budget than the majority of the league - it's a fact. Long live RDZ.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

But this is the problem, Potter had a lot of spells like this, and then would follow it up with a spell of being completely abject. The consistency lasted a few months and then would go pear shaped. Just before this spell with a win against Watford we were looking at Europe and 6 games later relegation. Same with at the beginning of the season, a fantastic start (4 Wins in 5) and then no wins in the next 10. You see this pattern in the 2020/21 season. With three straight wins in the early part of 2021 and then followed by 2 draws and 3 losses. He showed this at Chelsea as well, not being able to consistently put together results. He also didn't send players to new heights, I and many were quite happy to let Solly go before RDZ came in, I think any debate that Potter and RDZ are anyway near the same level is very very very wide of the mark. There are so many factors to the reasoning for the inconsistency this season, potter never had those excuses (injuries, European fixture congestion, fatigue)/

I would suggest that the team by 2022 was simply better than it had been earlier in Potter's run.

I'm just going to focus in on the point in here that I have an actual objection to:
You would have been quite happy to let Solly go before RDZ came in?
He was playing bloody well before RDZ. I remember him being absolute dynamite in Potter's final game against Leicester (notwithstanding his unfortunate error in the first couple of minutes that led to their goal, but for the rest of that half it was like he'd been prodded into some sort of Super Solly mode out of rage at the error).

 

[warmleyseagull]

We would not have finished 6th with Potter, I think that needs putting to bed. He beat a dire Leicester City with a cardboard cut out in goal, don't think he had consistency in his locker. He never got Solly scoring like Roberto did.

Er yes, but he also beat Man U twice and took 26 points from the other 13 games with a human in goal.

We can argue toss; the simple point is that I don't believe RDZ serves the demi god status that he has/had with many. Too many love all the passion; the jumping around when we score etc. But the flip side is the slouching in the seat; covering his face and other poor demeanour he too often shows on conceding. How do the players feel when they see that? That is THE time you need your boss; he seems to go hiding.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

But with all respect Burnley are not the worst team, we have scored 11 goals past them this season, where as in a similar season, Potter's team scored 0.

Okay, fair enough - he took our decent team to the SECOND WORST team in the league and scraped a point. I'm not sure it really makes a difference to the point, though!

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The loss to Roma (which was entirely forgivable tbh - a step too far in a wonderful adventure)

A loss at Roma was indeed, 'entirely forgivable'.

The NATURE and magnitude of the loss, was absolutely not. We really did not need to come away from Rome, completely out of that tie, but Roberto set the team up badly, then his ego / stubbornness refused to allow any efforts to fix it - until after the game had gone, and the adventure was effectively over.

He's an entertainer for sure - but half the ballsy character traits that make him good, at the same time are factors in his weaknesses.

 

[Stat Brother]

Okay, fair enough - he took our decent team to the SECOND WORST team in the league and scraped a point. I'm not sure it really makes a difference to the point, though!

I see your 'scraped' and raise you 'gifted a very lucky'.

 

[jackalbion]

Er yes, but he also beat Man U twice and took 26 points from the other 13 games with a human in goal.

We can argue toss; the simple point is that I don't believe RDZ serves the demi god status that he has/had with many. Too many love all the passion; the jumping around when we score etc. But the flip side is the slouching in the seat; covering his face and other poor demeanour he too often shows on conceding. How do the players feel when they see that? That is THE time you need your boss; he seems to go hiding.

I mean if we can't revere the manager who took us to our highest ever position, and qualified us for Europe for the first time ever (something 90% of football fans will never see with their club), as a demi god, who are we meant to revere as a Demi God?

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Multiple times with Potter we played 10-12 games in a month because Covid we are never facing that congestion again.

When did this happen multiple times?

We played 9 games in 5 weeks to complete the delayed 2019-20 season. We actually had a more congested end to last season under RDZ when we played 9 games in 33 days. But we never played 10-12 games in a month under Potter multiple times, or ever, Covid or not.

 

[jackalbion]

I would suggest that the team by 2022 was simply better than it had been earlier in Potter's run.

I'm just going to focus in on the point in here that I have an actual objection to:
You would have been quite happy to let Solly go before RDZ came in?
He was playing bloody well before RDZ. I remember him being absolute dynamite in Potter's final game against Leicester (notwithstanding his unfortunate error in the first couple of minutes that led to their goal, but for the rest of that half it was like he'd been prodded into some sort of Super Solly mode out of rage at the error).

I think with Solly's form before RDZ came in, it begged the question whether he was good enough to take us to the next level. A good player, but lets not pretend his finishing was any good. I think RDZ took him to a much better level. The only similar player I particularly credit with Potter improving was Dan Burn. I think the likes of Bissouma and Trossard always had quality (although I always thought (and still do) think Trossard is incredibly inconsistent) they would have always improved. Mac Allister was very inconsistent under Potter, until the very end.

 

[jackalbion]

I dont get the whole Potter not taking players to new heights when we built a class team based on largely unknown cheap players. Trossard was a different level when he left from when he came. Bissouma for Hughton and Bissouma for Potter. Alexis a lot better as time went on Caicedo we will never know what he´d looked like if playing from start Dan Burn improved a lot probably. Multiple times with Potter we played 10-12 games in a month because Covid we are never facing that congestion again. Long term injuries to Lamptey when he was our only quick players long term injuries to March Welbeck. Same problem as Roberto same problems as nearly all current PL managers

I have no memory of any of the fixture congestion that RDZ has dealt with was ever dealt with by Potter. I'd like someone to point to this period?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Because Chelsea courted him, his form dipped and the manager decided to pick another player in his place.

RDZ still picked RS, and he still got the Wembley semi-final, clearly a player RDZ still wanted around. Amazing the narratives that come out.

It really is amazing the narratives that come out

 

[Beanstalk]

A loss at Roma was indeed, 'entirely forgivable'.

The NATURE and magnitude of the loss, was absolutely not. We really did not need to come away from Rome, completely out of that tie, but Roberto set the team up badly, then his ego / stubbornness refused to allow any efforts to fix it - until after the game had gone, and the adventure was effectively over.

He's an entertainer for sure - but half the ballsy character traits that make him good, at the same time are factors in his weaknesses.

Roma also took that game way more seriously than I expected. It felt huge being there, like it was their biggest game of the season.

I think we were overawed by it and the game was lost on individual errors (Lamptey's inability to play the offside trap for the first, Dunk's brainfade for the second, Welbeck's appalling finishing to get us back into it). By half-time the position was impossible. I'm not going to pretend that RDZ got it perfectly right, but I think the stats, and De Rossi's comments post match, show that 4-0 wasn't a fair reflection of the game. To blame that loss entirely on him and how he set the team up is a pretty targeted view of what actually happened. Roma created better chances and were far more clinical than us. I don't think it would've gone any better if we'd stuck 10 behind the ball if we're being honest, I'm much happier seeing us lose giving it a go.

And I think more importantly, we're not even going to Rome if it wasn't for that attacking ambition that he's bought to the club. Whatever you felt about Potter, we simply didn't score enough goals under him to reach European places.

 

[Beanstalk]

I have no memory of any of the fixture congestion that RDZ has dealt with was ever dealt with by Potter. I'd like someone to point to this period?

Potter never had more than 6 games in a month as Brighton Manager.

RDZ had 7 in April. 7 in May 2023. 7 in Dec 2023.

I'm not sure any Premier League side has ever played 12 games in a month.