Are there sociological, political and economic reasons for the riots

[Seagull Stew]

"Mindless" thuggery and thievery is itself a social, economic and political phenomenon. And it's not mindless.

As I said on another thread, this is "social banditry" - the term used by Eric Hobsbawm in Primitive Rebels. These are urban bandits, obviously, rather than the rural bandits he was writing about.

"The point about social bandits is that they are peasant outlaws whom the lord and state regard as criminals, but who remain within peasant society, and are considered by their people as heroes, as champions, avengers, fighters for justice, perhaps even leaders of liberation, and in any case as men to be admired, helped and supported. This relation between the ordinary peasant and the rebel, outlaw and robber is what makes social banditry interesting and significant ... Social banditry of this kind is one of the most universal social phenomena known to history".


Change the word "peasant" to "Londoner", and "the lord and state" to "the authorities" in the above passage and read it again.

The looters are making a statement about their place in the wider society. The wider society doesn't want to listen. It just wants to lock the looters up and throw away the key.

To be honest, this definition probably better explains the illogical support certain sections of the public have given to people like Ronnie Biggs or Raul Moat in recent years than it does for these looters.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I blame Mossad.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

And of course, these people were representative of all those who were involved in the looting and rioting were they?

Out of interest, why do you believe that a promising musician or rising olympic star could not possibly be socially and economically deprived?

Well.the rising olympic star had good training and coaches for these sports are expensive. The musician already had an expensive violin..hardly deprived were they. How anybody can say these people are deprived...most of looters had designer gear,phones,they needed stuff to sell to feed their drug habits. If you want to see deprived people,try the back streets of Calcutta or million other places...and if you are deprived that is not an excuse to take someone elses property and smash what you do not need.After the war we as a family had nothing so we worked to get things,not loot cause arson and murder,this is the problem that there are too many apologist and do-gooders for these thugs. I hope that they get the full weight of the law thrown at them,although this might be against their 'Yuman Rights'and they will get a slapped wrist and get a pound out of the poor box.

 

[bpbill]

According to the London Evening Standard he did.

Yes but they apparently they and other journalists were 'misled' by the Police which is why

The Independent Police Complaints Commission later released a statement to make it clear that Mr Duggan did not fire a gun at police.

Ballistic tests found that a bullet which lodged itself in one officer's radio was police issue.

It was reported by many media outlets at the time that a police officer had been shot before Mr Duggan was killed.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Not sure if Adidas will be laughing or crying that their gear appears to be the looters sportwear of choice

 

[Skaville]

It has to be the first one,it cannot be...economic and political.....no. Not when a millionaires daughter,a promising musician,an olympic rising star a trainee solicitor were involved in the looting and rioting. Politicical...no...no anti government banners,no anti government chanting.It is pure greed.

The press were always going to pick out the professionals, the ones who seem to have no place there so they can steer clear of the real agenda, the social, economic and political issues that led to this problem. How many of the rioters were unemployed? How many were from ethnic minorities, how many were of school age? How many live in poverty? How many were from broken homes? How many have gang affiliation? How many were women? These are the important questions, not how many can play the guitar well. Concentrate on the majority, not the few that lazy jouranlists want you to focus on.

That said(!), a comment on two specific cases. Well done to the mother of the Olympic Protege for shopping her daughter, that's proper parenting and also spare a thought for the engineering undergraduate who came upon looting on his way home from a night out. He saw that Lidl was being hit and popped in for some water 3.50's worth. He got nicked, pleaded guilty, apologised, saying that he got carried away. He had no criminal record. He got sent down for six months. An excellent use of taxpayers money that.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

And what's wrong with that ?

It's the classic way of dealing with bandits. What's wrong with it? It doesn't work.

The deportation of the Tolpuddle Martyrs is a good example.

 

[colinz]

Obviously these yobs have to much time on their hands, and this wouldn't be the case if they were actually working 40 hours each week.
But even yobs can become Prime Ministers, but it helps if you attended the right schools.

An Open Letter to David Cameron Nathaniel Tapley

 

[Lord Bracknell]

To be honest, this definition probably better explains the illogical support certain sections of the public have given to people like Ronnie Biggs or Raul Moat in recent years than it does for these looters.

I don't disagree.

But, if we are talking about the looters, we are talking about a different section of the public here - a section of the public, nevertheless. I suspect that there might be a great deal more sympathy around than has found expression in the pages of the mainstream media.

 

[Danny-Boy]

Yep, surely if you are a mindless thug you are one because of social, economic and political reasons.

I'm sure though that you'll get loads of people voting for the thug option because it's easier and satisfies the nonsense agenda of a certain political view.

As opposed to a nonce-sense point of view.

 

[Danny-Boy]

It's the classic way of dealing with bandits. What's wrong with it? It doesn't work.

The deportation of the Tolpuddle Martyrs is a good example.

Please send me to Australia..please...

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's the classic way of dealing with bandits. What's wrong with it? It doesn't work.

The deportation of the Tolpuddle Martyrs is a good example.

Is it documented if Tolpuddle returned to normality, and indeed obscurity, following the deportation?

 

[Danny-Boy]

Its neck and neck 13:13 so far..

 

[El Presidente]

There were some economic and political reasons behind the original disturbances, but not for the copycat behaviour.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Its neck and neck 13:13 so far..

Following on from 12:12 and now 14:14. Hmmmm. How likely is that?

 

[Seagull Stew]

the problem that there are too many apologist and do-gooders for these thugs. I hope that they get the full weight of the law thrown at them,although this might be against their 'Yuman Rights'and they will get a slapped wrist and get a pound out of the poor box.

You forgot bleedin' hearted and I always find that bloody do-gooders has more of an effect. You got in Yuman Rights though which is good, although the preferred spelling is 'Uman Rights. And you did forget the somehow relevant rant about 'elf and safety. Richard Littlejohn marks you 7/10.

 

[Meade's Ball]

Of course there are, you don't see the Ruperts and Hugos ram-raiding or petrol-bombing the Henley on Thames branch of Dixons

That's because they dine off the slave labour in their south american fizzy drink factories. And if they wanted to loot such places they'd send the poor in for them whilst they drunkenly croquet the day away.

 

[Silent Bob]

Surely the correct answer is both. Mindless, greedless, thievery and thuggery underpinned by social and economic and political problems.

Yep, surely if you are a mindless thug you are one because of social, economic and political reasons.

I'm sure though that you'll get loads of people voting for the thug option because it's easier and satisfies the nonsense agenda of a certain political view.

Exactly. The idea that analysing a situation is making excuses is so silly. Things like this clearly don't just spring up out of nowhere.

 

[kevo]

Of course there are sociological reasons. Yes, you have a millionaires daughter etc involved, but the media are only highlighting these people to make a point. I suspect the vast majority are nothing of the sort, and the others got 'swept up' in it.

Another point to bear in mind, is that the more middle class rioters are the ones more likely to be arrested and appear in court - as they are more likely to be shopped by family, friends and neighbours. The neighbours of kids on a rundown estate are less likely to report them even if they recognise them from CCTV - for various reasons (reprisals, couldn't give a sh*t, dislike of the police, etc)

 

[Acker79]

I think social, political and economic problems exists, and need to be addressed, but I think the overwhelming majority of people involved weren't acting on those reasons, they just saw an opportunity for free stuff, bit of destructive fun, rebellion, etc.