Are Engerlund better WITHOUT Terry and Lampard?

[Lady Whistledown]

The problem is we don't have world class players, sure they play well as a team but against stronger opposition we'd roll over, currently I'm concerned about:
Milner
Glen Johnson
SWP
Carrick
Bent
Crouch
Hart
Lescott
Jagielka

Sure they have time to get better but they're just not would class yet.

The others: fair enough, Johnson in particular is crap and SWP isn't international class by a long shot, but you must be one of the few concerned about Hart?

Or was he suddenly dodgy last night (I didn't watch it)?

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Personally, Lamps should be available on the bench. Rio should just about make the team when fully fit. If it wasn't for so many injuries in that position, Terry should never be near the squad again, he just isn't good enough any more.

 

[beardosh]

The problem is we don't have world class players, sure they play well as a team but against stronger opposition we'd roll over, currently I'm concerned about:
Milner
Glen Johnson
SWP
Carrick
Bent
Crouch
Hart
Lescott
Jagielka

Sure they have time to get better but they're just not would class yet.

What is with this obsession about having 'world class players'? It's more important to have a world class TEAM. Who can name all those world class players in the Greece team that won the euros a few years ago? I wish we would forget trying to fill a starting 11 with big names and play the best TEAM.

For me, Terry is a bad influence in the squad and he is still throwing his toys out of the pram since the armband was taken off him. Unfortunately no England manager, including this one is brave enough to leave him or Lampard out of the squad. With Ferdinand being named captain almost guarantees him a place whether he deserves it or not. With Milner picking up a booking last night it makes Capellos decision easy for the next game by pushing Gerrard out to the left and bringing Lampard back in. I was hoping that all last nights players would be available for the next game and force him into deciding on changing the team or not but that was not to be.

 

[Marshy]

An embarrassingly accurate (for John Terry) assessment

Painful, isn't it, that the idiot earns £130,000 a week for essentially piggybacking off other people's ability?

I am not a Terry fan but to describe him as nothing more than Adam Virgo is laughable.

Carvalho has hardly kicked a ball for Chelsea in the last couple of years, he has partnered Alex generally to the double last year along with Ivanovic and others in central defence and they won the double last year.

You just dont win the double or constantly get to semi finals and finals of champions league football with anything other than excellent players playing at centre back.

If he was anything other than excellent he would have been found out years ago.

Having said that he is disruptive in my opinion at England level and Capello now has the opportunity to leave him out, he will not get a better opportunity.

Lets see if he does....

 

[keaton]

I think we look a lot better in midfield with only one of Gerrard or Lampard, and that's criticising either player.

I like the look of Jagielka a lot but we still look sloppy defensively andGlen Johnson's a bit of a liability

 

[questier]

I know we have an inferior midfield to Spain, but if they can keep someone like Fabregas on the bench, surely we can keep Lampard out of the side. At the world cup having gerrard on the left clearly didn't work. Its down that left hand side that Rooney likes to drop into and to see such both influential players having no impact on the game reall didn't help our cause. In the last two fixtures our midfield has had a far greater fluidity about it. Apart from walcotts inability to deliver a decent final ball (Adam Johnson should be ahead of him) it's some of the best football we've played since that night in Zagreb.

 

[Southwick_Seagull]

Unfortunaly they will both come back in which pisses me off as Capello said he was gonna pick players on form. Would be very unfair to change a winning team.

 

[FlownWest]

100% yes. Lampard upsets the balance of the midfield (not entirely his fault but he should not be picked above Gerrard or alongside him) and both of them are overrated. I can't stand Terry especially but I don't want either of them in the England starting XI.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

The problem is we don't have world class players, sure they play well as a team but against stronger opposition we'd roll over, currently I'm concerned about:
Milner
Glen Johnson
SWP
Carrick
Bent
Crouch
Hart
Lescott
Jagielka

Sure they have time to get better but they're just not would class yet.

The last World cup has shown though that having world class players means nothing unless they play well as a team. Germany got to the Semi-Finals and Holland to the Final. Both with less world class players than were on show for England last night.

Terry is just too damn slow.

 

[rcf0712]

Seems to me that Terry may have burned his bridges (no pun intended) and could find it hard to get back now, which means a decent back up to Ashley Cole may be available again....
Lampard, whilst clearly very effective at Chelski, adds nothing to the England team and IMHOP actually negates Gerrard and stops Barry going forward.

 

[Monty]

I am not a Terry fan but to describe him as nothing more than Adam Virgo is laughable.

Carvalho has hardly kicked a ball for Chelsea in the last couple of years, he has partnered Alex generally to the double last year along with Ivanovic and others in central defence and they won the double last year.

You just dont win the double or constantly get to semi finals and finals of champions league football with anything other than excellent players playing at centre back.

If he was anything other than excellent he would have been found out years ago.

Having said that he is disruptive in my opinion at England level and Capello now has the opportunity to leave him out, he will not get a better opportunity.

Lets see if he does....

Spot on Marshy. I couldn't be bothered to type that much but was hoping someone would.

 

[Triggaaar]

England have often played better in the past in tournaments when "lesser" players were forced into the teams through injuries and suspension - 1986 World Cup is a good example when Robson and Wilkins were replaced by Reid and Hodge and Hateley was dropped for Beardsley. Everybody wrote them off (even though with those 3 they were utter toilet) but suddenly they played much, much better.

We played the 2010 WC without Rio, and it cost us. It was the worst England defence I've ever seen. And our '86 team didn't play particularly well. I agree with your point that it's about the best team though, which won't include all the best players. There are probably many occasions (ie, depending on opposition and tactics) where Gerrard and Lampard won't fit into the same team, but it's still useful to have them both in the squad.

 

[crodonilson]

JT and Lamps should both be in the squad next time, however they shouldn't be in the starting line-up. Why change a winning team and an impressive win at that?? However I would expect they fight for their place and in time claim their righful places in the first 11.

 

[mcshane in the 79th]

As for John Terry i've always said ability wise he's no better than Adam Virgo but has been lucky enough to play along side some of the world best defenders his whole career which has made him look better than the average league one player he really is. However he really got found out in the world cup playing alongside Upson.

I'm no John Terry fan but disagree that he has just got lucky with the defensive partners. There's no way he would have stayed in Mourinho's, Grant's, Anchellotti's teams if he was Adam Virgo

 

[mcshane in the 79th]

I am not a Terry fan but to describe him as nothing more than Adam Virgo is laughable.

Carvalho has hardly kicked a ball for Chelsea in the last couple of years, he has partnered Alex generally to the double last year along with Ivanovic and others in central defence and they won the double last year.

You just dont win the double or constantly get to semi finals and finals of champions league football with anything other than excellent players playing at centre back.

If he was anything other than excellent he would have been found out years ago.

Having said that he is disruptive in my opinion at England level and Capello now has the opportunity to leave him out, he will not get a better opportunity.

Lets see if he does....

Just read this, exactly my thoughts but expressed far more effectively

 

[tricky]

Let's not forget that we trounced qualifying for the world cup with a team that included those guys. Just becuase we have beaten a couple of smallish sides, we shouldn't think that we have somehow found what was missing at the world cup.

 

[Sheebo]

I just don't understand how we were so bad at the WC compared to how well we qualified and how well we've started this qualification - it's baffling.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Cappello has to strike the right balance between keeping what's good of the "old guard" but changing the dynamic with new faces.

We know James has retired and been replaced by Hart, while Heskey's retired and effectively been replaced by Defoe. The key is what he does when everyone's fit because I don't think the press or the fans would accept a side that had all of Glen Johnson, Ashley Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney.

In his haste to "get rid" of the old guard he's alienated Joe Cole and Beckham. Lucky for Cappello that Walcott and Adam Johnson - players deemed not god enough for the WC squad - have exceeded expectation, so that the exclusion of the two senior players is not likely to be an issue.

I think that Lampard will be benched in favour of a midfield of Walcott / Gerrard / Milner / Barry.

As for Terry, it would be a hell of a big call to leave him out of the squad in light of the injuries we've got in that department already.

 

[beorhthelm]

Lampard *or* Gerrard was proven years ago, yet managers come back to it during qualifiers agaisnt shite teams, think they've found a method that works, then get found out at the next decent side.

As much as we went two games without conceding silly goals (last nights was a pretty special one from the Swiss fella) we were very shaky in the box. if Terry isnt there we need a very strong communicator/leader to marshall the defence. everyone like to knock him, but you dont get to his position by fluke and chance, he's held a place at the top level through 4 managers at Chelsea and 3 for England - they cant all be wrong?

 

[Voice of Reason]

Fact is they are all getting a bit past it. Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Beckham. It's almost like we keep them as "national treasures". Time to move on and up with the new blood.