[Albion] Apple - the world's first trillion dollar company

[Yoda]

Working in IT in the NHS, Apple products are the bane of our lives.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Working in IT in the NHS, Apple products are the bane of our lives.

Why’s that?

 

[vegster]

It's genuinely sad that one company can be valued at a Trillion Dollars. We are well on our way to having a society controlled by 4-5 big corporations with more global power, control and influence than elected governments. Worrying times.

 

[happypig]

Working in IT in the NHS, Apple products are the bane of our lives.

I'd have thought out of date Microsoft products were more of a concern.

 

[Badger]

Where iOS is still streets ahead, and this is an area I'm working on at the moment, is app development. Despite the significantly larger user base, iOS nearly always comes first. And that's because IOS is easier to develop for (not a zillion different devices running a zillion different versions of Android) but also because iOS customers will spend money on apps and IAPs. Android users are tight. Or poor. Maybe both.

You may be right about iOS customers spending money on apps but as for app development, to quote [MENTION=14669]LlcoolJ[/MENTION], you're talking complete bollocks. I'm part of a team developing an app in both Android and iOS and I think most of my team would agree Android is easier to develop.

The iOS development environment - XCode - is clunky to say the least. It's slow, unresponsive and not particularly intuitive (although that's probably a lot to do with Apple trying to force people to work in a certain way). The interface for designing the screen layouts is also something of a dark art and it can be very difficult to get things laid out nicely, which is a bit ridiculous considering there's so few phones we need to support for iOS. Debugging is also a lot more of a pain, especially when the debugger crashes.

Android has a much more polished development environment which can be customised to suit needs. Don't get me wrong, it is a pain to support many different screen sizes and Android versions, but I think it's done in a quite intuitive way. I spend very little of my time making changes to support specific phones.

 

[Badger]

Absolutely.

And you'll still look around almost any tech conference or an app development shop and see 90%+ MacBooks.

That's partly because Apple FORCE you to use a Mac to develop iOS apps. Given the choice, I'd LUZZ my MacBook out of a window and get a MS Surface Pro or something similar.

 

[Bozza]

You may be right about iOS customers spending money on apps but as for app development, to quote [MENTION=14669]LlcoolJ[/MENTION], you're talking complete bollocks. I'm part of a team developing an app in both Android and iOS and I think most of my team would agree Android is easier to develop.

The iOS development environment - XCode - is clunky to say the least. It's slow, unresponsive and not particularly intuitive (although that's probably a lot to do with Apple trying to force people to work in a certain way). The interface for designing the screen layouts is also something of a dark art and it can be very difficult to get things laid out nicely, which is a bit ridiculous considering there's so few phones we need to support for iOS. Debugging is also a lot more of a pain, especially when the debugger crashes.

Android has a much more polished development environment which can be customised to suit needs. Don't get me wrong, it is a pain to support many different screen sizes and Android versions, but I think it's done in a quite intuitive way. I spend very little of my time making changes to support specific phones.

"May be right" gives away your feelings somewhat there. I think most current reports have it that the far smaller population of people with iOS devices spend about twice as much as the gazillions of Android users in the current app economy. And that is gross, so you can't discount it as averages being skewed by the proliferation of cheap Android devices in developing economies. Android users just don't spend money.

I can only speak as I find. Let's be clear, I'm not a developer, but the stuff I'm involved with at the moment has Android being all kinds of awful. It's like whack-a-mole. You hit one device/OS version flavoured mole, only for 10 different ones to pop up. I'm not going to argue the toss though - it's sunny and I have the pub to go before heading to the Amex.

 

[Bozza]

That's partly because Apple FORCE you to use a Mac to develop iOS apps. Given the choice, I'd LUZZ my MacBook out of a window and get a MS Surface Pro or something similar.

You're an angry man today. Catch up on sleep over the weekend.

 

[Badger]

"May be right" gives away your feelings somewhat there. I think most current reports have it that the far smaller population of people with iOS devices spend about twice as much as the gazillions of Android users in the current app economy. And that is gross, so you can't discount it as averages being skewed by the proliferation of cheap Android devices in developing economies. Android users just don't spend money.

I can only speak as I find. Let's be clear, I'm not a developer, but the stuff I'm involved with at the moment has Android being all kinds of awful. It's like whack-a-mole. You hit one device/OS version flavoured mole, only for 10 different ones to pop up. I'm not going to argue the toss though - it's sunny and I have the pub to go before heading to the Amex.

Oh yes, I'm aware of iOS users spending far more money on (or within) apps. I hardly spend any money on apps, so I guess I'm your typical Android user! Thankfully we're developing an app where the money we make doesn't come from the users.

When I first started developing Android apps I did have a lot of frustration with the different versions. They've improved things a lot and I've learnt all the tricks to avoid the pain. I barely even think about it now.

You're an angry man today. Catch up on sleep over the weekend.

The fire alarm in my building kept beeping last night so I didn't sleep very well

 

[LlcoolJ]

You're an angry man today. Catch up on sleep over the weekend.

No, he just isn't an Apple fan. I know that's difficult for cult members to comprehend but it doesn't sound like he's particularly angry. Just disagreeing with you.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I definitely agree with Bozza that Apple users spend more on apps though. Of course they do as most apps on Android are free. I've had Android phones for about 10 years and I reckon I've only paid money for about three apps.

It's not being tight or poor, there's just no need.

 

[Audax]

The majority of Petrochina shares were owned by the the government of China so not really a fair comparison

Probably not a fair comparison, no ... but I wasn't making a comparison. I was clarifying the *facts*. And the fact is, Petrochina was the first Trillion Dollar company over a decade before Apple got there. It's just everyone has neatly forgotten about it given that a) it probably wasn't a fair valuation at the time (witness how it tanked within a year), and b) it was a Chinese company and doesn't fit the narrative that "west is best".

 

[Yoda]

Why’s that?

They constantly lock accounts out when people forget to update passwords on their devices.

It's a bit like this:
User changes expired password.
Apple device tries to reconnect saying "this is the correct password"
Server rejects it
Apple device instantly tries to reconnect saying "this is the correct password"
Server rejects it
Apple device instantly tries to reconnect saying "this is the correct password"
Server rejects it
Apple device instantly tries to reconnect saying "this is the correct password"
Server rejects it
Apple device instantly tries to reconnect saying "this is the correct password"
etc
Account is now lock so user has issues working, so calls us.

Android on the other hand:
User changes expired password.
Apple device tries to reconnect saying "this is the correct password"
Server rejects it
Android device does not try to reconnect until the next time it is in range.

 

[Yoda]

I'd have thought out of date Microsoft products were more of a concern.

Nope, we allow MS security updates (Even more so after the Security Issue the other year) and are always patching them.

 

[Badger]

Their design has definitely gone downhill though. I mean just look how ridiculous these things are

 

[happypig]

I definitely agree with Bozza that Apple users spend more on apps though. Of course they do as most apps on Android are free. I've had Android phones for about 10 years and I reckon I've only paid money for about three apps.

It's not being tight or poor, there's just no need.

Nothing is free, my friend.

 

[middletoenail]

I'm surprised at how many people I see on the underground in the morning with a new looking iPhone, yet they still have that app which imitates the 'Home' button? Wasn't that a problem years ago, and if so how have Apple not managed to build a button that works properly? Madness.

 

[Triggaaar]

Having suffered an android phone for the last 2 years I finally got back onto iPhone last week. My God! The difference. No bloat ware. No nag-verts. No unwanted boosting. Easy syncing with other devices. Just a joy to use again. Why did I ever change formats?!!

Whereas I moved from iPhone to Android, and find that's much better I don't have bloatware, or adverts, or boosting. I don't need iTunes, and I get to pop an SD card in with tons of music already on it. And it's cheaper and better.

To each their own eh.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Whereas I moved from iPhone to Android, and find that's much better I don't have bloatware, or adverts, or boosting. I don't need iTunes, and I get to pop an SD card in with tons of music already on it. And it's cheaper and better.

To each their own eh.

It begs the question which phone did he have and which provider etc.

It's the usual argument when someone says that Android phones are rubbish. A bit like saying all BMWs are rubbish when all you've driven is a one series or a Mini.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Don't under-estimate the value of best-in-class customer service too. I've seen friends who have had issues with Android phones and whether they bought outright or are on a contract from one of the high street chains, it always seems like a massive faff to get sorted out, often involving sending the phone away for some period of time and either being without a phone completely or some crappy 50th-hand loaner phone to get by with.

When i dropped my phone in NYC, I could open the Apple Store app on my phone there and then, make an appointment for early the next morning and I knew that despite the fact I was abroad, that by the time I'd had breakfast I'd have as as-new phone again.

I still think the laptops are without parallel, even though the price is now eye-watering. It's not just coincidence that nearly everyone in tech uses MacBooks.

Genuine question Bozza, not being a dick. Did you have to pay some sort of insurance to get such service or are you saying that any accidental damage to an iPhone means you can take it to an Apple shop and get a new one?

It's just that mates of mine who have iPhones don't seem to have had the same level of service that you experienced.