[News] Apple facing multi billion Euro tax bill

[Bozza]

Interesting case - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37216176

Particularly interesting in that the Irish government, who would receive billions of Euros, are expected to appeal [in order not to receive billions of Euros].

Sounds like the Irish government are quite happy to, presumably, trade jobs in return for a loss of corporation tax. Doesn't feel quite right.

 

[clippedgull]

more importantly:

 

[pastafarian]

Not really surprised big multinationals use legal loopholes to bring down their tax bill.
Fracking furious governments worldwide cant agree what tax a global companies should be paying in their own countries.
It really cant be that hard. Sort it out you planks,stop this crap......it really isnt fair and Amazon,Vodaphone,Google and everyone else are not going to go bust if they have to pay their tax at their highest unavoided rate

 

[Paul Reids Sock]

My understanding is that the irish have allowed it to happen as a trade off for jobs, and also because despite giving the tax cuts they are still earning something from the deal

I also believe that it isn't just Apple that they have such a deal with and they are worried that if this goes against them then a number of other businesses will up and leave the country leaving them a lot worse off in the long run than the short term gain of a billion or 2.

2 questions:

1. Is my understanding correct?

2. As this is an EU ruling, could this see Britain becoming such a haven for these companies when Brexit happens?
2.1. Would this be a good thing?

 

[Cian]

Some suggestions the bill will "only" be a billion euro. Will be appealed at almost any level because of representational damage and the risk they'll move on to pharma companies next.

Apple have about 4,000 staff in Cork; in the middle of an extremely economically disadvantaged area of the city as well so there is some substance to their operations rather than just a tax shell company - of which there's plenty too.

edit: suggestions were very, very wrong.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Just the 11 billion to pay then !

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Just the 11 billion to pay then !

Two points. First this from a organisation that has not had its accounts signed-off for years. Secondly due you really expext them to pay up ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

2. As this is an EU ruling, could this see Britain becoming such a haven for these companies when Brexit happens?
2.1. Would this be a good thing?

The U.K. is already a haven for big corporations paying **** all tax. No, it's not a good thing as it's unfair and heavily benefits big business over small.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

My understanding is that the irish have allowed it to happen as a trade off for jobs, and also because despite giving the tax cuts they are still earning something from the deal

I also believe that it isn't just Apple that they have such a deal with and they are worried that if this goes against them then a number of other businesses will up and leave the country leaving them a lot worse off in the long run than the short term gain of a billion or 2.

2 questions:

1. Is my understanding correct?

2. As this is an EU ruling, could this see Britain becoming such a haven for these companies when Brexit happens?
2.1. Would this be a good thing?

Your second point is a good one as the EU spokeswoman has clearly read-out ALL MEMBER STATES,so what happens next if we do actually Brexit ?

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Herr Tubthumper,you know as well as me and like someone has already pointed out the only way really around this is top close tax havens,unify VAT and national tax laws,but do you really expect that to happen ?

 

[Baldseagull]

My understanding is that the irish have allowed it to happen as a trade off for jobs, and also because despite giving the tax cuts they are still earning something from the deal

I also believe that it isn't just Apple that they have such a deal with and they are worried that if this goes against them then a number of other businesses will up and leave the country leaving them a lot worse off in the long run than the short term gain of a billion or 2.

2 questions:

1. Is my understanding correct?

2. As this is an EU ruling, could this see Britain becoming such a haven for these companies when Brexit happens?
2.1. Would this be a good thing?

Ireland are also earning tax on profits made elsewhere in the EU, but run through Ireland. Ireland does well out of the deal by an increased tax take as well. Having set up there, Apple will shift operations only if it can get a better deal elsewhere in the EU. What the EU is trying to stamp out, is a situation where large corporations offer to channel their EU business through a country if that country will go easy on them tax wise. I believe it is permissable to have low rates for everyone, just not special rates for one or two companies. Ireland will possibly have to adjust it's tax code so that all tech companies get the special rate.

The Brexit bit is why getting access to the single market will take a lot of negotiation, the EU will not want to give us an advantage over EU countries in attracting foreign business to set up here, rather than there.
If we somehow negotiated a deal where we did have an advantage, it would be good for Britain, bad for the EU, initially, but it would damage relations with the EU and some sort of action would be taken.

The point of a Union is to stand together to get a fairer deal for everyone, when a party is allowed to get special treatment from one member of a Union, it weakens the Union. It may be good for that one member this time, and not so good for everyone else, but ultimately makes all members worse off, as they then compete to offer the cheapest deal to the massive companies.

 

[Paul Reids Sock]

Ireland are also earning tax on profits made elsewhere in the EU, but run through Ireland. Ireland does well out of the deal by an increased tax take as well. Having set up there, Apple will shift operations only if it can get a better deal elsewhere in the EU. What the EU is trying to stamp out, is a situation where large corporations offer to channel their EU business through a country if that country will go easy on them tax wise. I believe it is permissable to have low rates for everyone, just not special rates for one or two companies. Ireland will possibly have to adjust it's tax code so that all tech companies get the special rate.

The Brexit bit is why getting access to the single market will take a lot of negotiation, the EU will not want to give us an advantage over EU countries in attracting foreign business to set up here, rather than there.
If we somehow negotiated a deal where we did have an advantage, it would be good for Britain, bad for the EU, initially, but it would damage relations with the EU and some sort of action would be taken.

The point of a Union is to stand together to get a fairer deal for everyone, when a party is allowed to get special treatment from one member of a Union, it weakens the Union. It may be good for that one member this time, and not so good for everyone else, but ultimately makes all members worse off, as they then compete to offer the cheapest deal to the massive companies.

Ah nice - thank you.

I am not too well read on the finances and tax loopholes/havens etc. so find this all rather interesting

 

[Pretty Plnk Fairy]

Typical EU picking on the small guy as always

Regards

DR

 

[Two Professors]

Oh dear.Does this mean the absolutely charming Michael O'Leary will get a hefty tax bill as well?

 

[GOM]

So basically, countries in the EU are not free to set their own tax rates and deals ?

 

[Bozza]

So basically, countries in the EU are not free to set their own tax rates and deals ?

No, they absolutely are allowed to set their own tax rates.

They are not allowed to offer individual companies preferential deals that differ from those tax rates.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Is Corporation Tax optional in Eire then?

 

[Two Professors]

Expect the European Commission were jealous of the Irish Parliament's high tech equipment-Apple should have offered them freebies,as well!

 

[highflyer]

No, they absolutely are allowed to set their own tax rates.

They are not allowed to offer individual companies preferential deals that differ from those tax rates.

That is true. It is also true that in our increasingly globalized, increasingly digital economy, dominated by a small number of very large transnational corporations, the concept of 'tax sovereignty' is beginning to lose much meaning.

We need tax cooperation not tax competition. And the EU is to be commended for at least trying to move in that direction.

 

[Springal]

It isn't necessary tax avoidance. Plenty of countries give tax breaks or incentives for firms to set up shop there for jobs.

Canada have done it for film production companies for years.