Alcoholism an illness or weakness

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I'm not an alcoholic, but I did live with an alcoholics counsellor for two years (she had been the victim of spousal abuse at the hands of an alcoholic) and got some insight into this.

There many methods for evaluating an alcoholic, but there isn't really considered a quantifiable point at which someone obtains that label.

One person can drink excessively and not be labelled an alcoholic, and the next person drink very little, yet still be one. There is a school of thought, and one which to me makes a certain amount of sense, which dictates that the amount you drink is not necessarily the first test for your state of alcoholism, more that it's your reliance you place upon it and inherent desire for it, and the extent to which that takes over your state of being and your cognitive processes.

It's not a hard and fast rule, of course.

Not an Alcoholic? just remember to take the brushes out first or they tend to poke you in the eye.

 

[The Large One]

Not an Alcoholic? just remember to take the brushes out first or they tend to poke you in the eye.

Um, you're going to have to help me with that one...

 

[public school boy]

A heavy drinker may be able to drink 8 pints of beer per night and say to him/her self thats it I've had enough, but an alcoholic does not know what enough is and drink until they drop.Some go on out of control drinking sprees and when they do come round have no idea where they have been or what they have been up to.It's the first drink that does the damage.What reason does an alcoholic need to take their first ever drink,is it from coming from an abusive background,an abusive relationship,coming from a family with a history of alcoholism? I don't know.It might be possible that they have just been born that way.

 

[Acker79]

Um, you're going to have to help me with that one...

I think they were suggesting you're so desperate for alcohol you'd drink white spirits, which would typiclly have a paint brush in it, and that in your ravenous desire to drink it you may forget to take the brush out. Least that's how I took it.

Basically, when you say you're not an alcoholic they are jokingly saying "oh no, of course you're not "

 

[The Merry Prankster]

No Merry - NSC facilitates a range of opinions, often made by posters who have not personally experienced the circumstances in regard to the subject head. If you wanted to start a thread exclusive only to those who have been alcoholic themselves, fine, but otherwise expect people to comment. I presume you started to drink because you couldn't face the chip on your shoulder, but have ended up with a bigger one which shows itself when the subject of the demon drink arises.

I don't suppose it has ever occurred to you that you don't actually know what you are talking about. More important to you is your "right" to have an opinion, your "right" to sit in judgement of a friend, your "right" to label a group of sick people (including myself)gutless whilst bravely hiding behind your keyboard. I think you will find that in my responses to the brighter and more open minded correspondents on here that I have no chip on my shoulder regarding alcoholism. It is just insulting, judgemental, cowardly, ignorant twats like you who piss me off.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

will power... self control.

Can you explain to me what situation physically forces you to drink?
What situation makes you drink that can't be changed with the will power to say no, the self control to leave the glass/bottle/whatever on the table.

I know that for most alcoholics there is a huge huge difference between saying "just leave the glass on the table" and actually being able to just leave it there, but that is where my comment about will power/self control comes in.

What I mean is that sometimes even superhuman will power is not enough to control yourself to leave the glass there.

The problem is that one of the symptoms of alcoholism is an obsession of the mind. Obsessional thoughts are ones that supercede all othes, trump them if you like. What this means is howevever much will power one trhrows at it a mental twist will over rule it. This means we end up drinking even when we really don't want to, when we swear on our childrens lives we wont. Afterwards an alcoholic may have know idea how they started again. I have seen this happen to people even after 20 years without a drink, their rebuilt lives ruined in a matter (of days) It is (this difficult to explain) phenonenom that makes alcoholism so difficult to explain and so difficult for non alcoholics to understand.
Then once we have taken a drink something appears to kicks off in our brain chemistry and we cannot control how much we drink. I may come home after just the one or I may end up in New York a week later with five days of my life a complete blank. The point is I have no idea which it will be. This is why only total abstinence works.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

The best test for alcoholism I know is "Does your drinking cost you more than money?".

 

[Garage_Doors]

The best test for alcoholism I know is "Does your drinking cost you more than money?".

Always, Alcohol is a poison, When a landlord gets a license to serve alcohol it states he has a license to serve poison. Alcohol is detrimental to health. albeit only in a small way but consequently it will always cost you more than money.

 

[Acker79]

The problem is that one of the symptoms of alcoholism is an obsession of the mind. Obsessional thoughts are ones that supercede all othes, trump them if you like. What this means is howevever much will power one throws at it a mental twist will over rule it.

Swearing to do something, however much you mean it, and actually doing something are different. It doesn't take any will power to intend to not drink, it's in the not drinking that the will power comes into play.

But you seem to be saying something very similar to me, in that there is a struggle in the mind and even superhuman will power is not enough, and so it's not really weak to "only have a regular level of willpower".

 

[Acker79]

Alcohol is detrimental to health.

Except all those studies that show a small glass of wine is actually good for you.

Unless, you're an alcoholic of course.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I went to the wedding of an ex-pat friend in California a few years back. All of her friends were shocked and appalled at the levels of alcohol consumed at the wedding by us Brit wedding guests. Found it a quiet, civilised affair meself. I was equally shocked to find out later that the Californians had compared notes and come to the conclusion that everybody from the UK was a 'functioning alcoholic'

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I think they were suggesting you're so desperate for alcohol you'd drink white spirits, which would typiclly have a paint brush in it, and that in your ravenous desire to drink it you may forget to take the brush out. Least that's how I took it.

Basically, when you say you're not an alcoholic they are jokingly saying "oh no, of course you're not "

Is the correct answer.

TLO has been in denial long enough.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

The problem is that one of the symptoms of alcoholism is an obsession of the mind. Obsessional thoughts are ones that supercede all othes, trump them if you like. What this means is howevever much will power one trhrows at it a mental twist will over rule it. This means we end up drinking even when we really don't want to, when we swear on our childrens lives we wont. Afterwards an alcoholic may have know idea how they started again. I have seen this happen to people even after 20 years without a drink, their rebuilt lives ruined in a matter (of days) It is (this difficult to explain) phenonenom that makes alcoholism so difficult to explain and so difficult for non alcoholics to understand.
Then once we have taken a drink something appears to kicks off in our brain chemistry and we cannot control how much we drink. I may come home after just the one or I may end up in New York a week later with five days of my life a complete blank. The point is I have no idea which it will be. This is why only total abstinence works.

Thats it, end the debate with a rational measured response.

Spoilsport.

Well done to you BTW fella.

 

[Garage_Doors]

Except all those studies that show a small glass of wine is actually good for you.

This week it is, Next week the new study will say its not.

Depends on who's paying for the survey, either the winery or the WHO.

 

[getreal1]

I don't suppose it has ever occurred to you that you don't actually know what you are talking about. More important to you is your "right" to have an opinion, your "right" to sit in judgement of a friend, your "right" to label a group of sick people (including myself)gutless whilst bravely hiding behind your keyboard. I think you will find that in my responses to the brighter and more open minded correspondents on here that I do not have a chip on my shoulder regarding alcoholism. It is just insulting, judgemental, cowardly, ignorant twats like you who piss me off.

Thank you for your further abuse. It is notable that you respond with cowardly insults when someone diagrees with you. Your Achilles' heel is there for all to see. It is easy to sit in judgment on you.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Thank you for your further abuse. It is notable that you respond with cowardly insults when someone diagrees with you. Your Achilles' heel is there for all to see. It is easy to sit in judgment on you.

Perhaps the twat was uncalled for. The rest stands as does my offer to let you call me gutless to my face.

 

[getreal1]

Perhaps the twat was uncalled for. The rest stands as does my offer to let you call me gutless to my face.

Anytime

 

[NMH]

I noticed that some people, when facing down their own addiction, will start assimilating everyone else into the same issue as though they too must be addicted.

Having once lived with a girlfriend who was alcoholic, I can assure anyone in doubt that the best way to deal with it is to leave them. It's safer for all concerned, and saves a lot of unnecessary hassle.
They really have to face their problem as theirs alone, and not either use other people as crutches - or as excuses for their issue. It really is their own problem, theirs alone - no matter how they love to put it on any and everyone else.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I noticed that some people, when facing down their own addiction, will start assimilating everyone else into the same issue as though they too must be addicted.

Having once lived with a girlfriend who was alcoholic, I can assure anyone in doubt that the best way to deal with it is to leave them. It's safer for all concerned, and saves a lot of unnecessary hassle.
They really have to face their problem as theirs alone, and not either use other people as crutches - or as excuses for their issue. It really is their own problem, theirs alone - no matter how they love to put it on any and everyone else.

Entirely correct.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I noticed that some people, when facing down their own addiction, will start assimilating everyone else into the same issue as though they too must be addicted.

Having once lived with a girlfriend who was alcoholic, I can assure anyone in doubt that the best way to deal with it is to leave them. It's safer for all concerned, and saves a lot of unnecessary hassle.
They really have to face their problem as theirs alone, and not either use other people as crutches - or as excuses for their issue. It really is their own problem, theirs alone - no matter how they love to put it on any and everyone else.

That is a good point well made. The same is true for others with substance problems which turns loving and kind people into lying,thieving conniving little shits.

The mistake a lot of people believe that you can nag an addict into stopping, this will only serve to make them secretive and decietful. Threats to leave must be followed through otherwise the behaviour WILL continue and drag you down too.

Much as it may be that you love the person behind the addiction it will only drag you down to watch them destroy themselves. Every person I know with a history of addiction says the same, when you reach rock bottom you will stop or you will die..this is very true to my mind.

The programme which was on recently with the ex TV presenter Ed Mitchell??
went from money, family great job etc. to sleeping on a bench in Hove drinking Aldi vodka. What he said (and he is sober for over a year now) is that when he agreed to co-operate in the documentary it finally made him realise that everything was gone and he would soon be dead and he decided, after literally losing absolutely everything, that he would try and drag himself back from the edge.