Advice needed Re. Overpayment of wages.

[Foolg]

Appreciate this is off-topic, and of no interest to the majority, but wondered if anyone could help me with an issue I've got regarding an overpayment of wages dating back to September/August last year.

I worked at M&S throughout the summer in order to get out of my overdraft whilst off University, and have just had a letter come through to me asking for £290 odd due to an overpayment of wages. Thing is, I wasn't receiving payslips (it was a temporary contract and thus payment just went into my back account and i'd check it that way) and so although I noticed a couple of payments the week after leaving the company (and following week), I didn't realise they were overpayments.
Thing is, the entire system was so confusing on a number of levels, for example the first weeks pay wasn't paid until you left the company (or something similar), and there was thus always a backlog of a week. There were also issues with me being taken off training pay (and onto qualified pay), which was a difference of about 60p an hour, which never happened despite me being qualified after 3/4 weeks, AND I was sure I was underpaid for some of the overtime that I had done for them. I therefore thought that these payments were what was genuinely owed to me, and accounted my spending as such to include them in my savings.
A couple of mates of mine (law students at Uni) have told me that If I claim to have spent the money genuinely believing it was correct payment, then there is little they can do (whether this is true is a mystery to me). I appreciate it's probably me in the wrong for not chasing it up at the time etc, but was just wondering if there is anything I can argue against them, given I genuinely don't have £300 spare with rent payments and living costs etc.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mr Smggles]

Appreciate this is off-topic, and of no interest to the majority, but wondered if anyone could help me with an issue I've got regarding an overpayment of wages dating back to September/August last year.

I worked at M&S throughout the summer in order to get out of my overdraft whilst off University, and have just had a letter come through to me asking for £290 odd due to an overpayment of wages. Thing is, I wasn't receiving payslips (it was a temporary contract and thus payment just went into my back account and i'd check it that way) and so although I noticed a couple of payments the week after leaving the company (and following week), I didn't realise they were overpayments.
Thing is, the entire system was so confusing on a number of levels, for example the first weeks pay wasn't paid until you left the company (or something similar), and there was thus always a backlog of a week. There were also issues with me being taken off training pay (and onto qualified pay), which was a difference of about 60p an hour, which never happened despite me being qualified after 3/4 weeks, AND I was sure I was underpaid for some of the overtime that I had done for them. I therefore thought that these payments were what was genuinely owed to me, and accounted my spending as such to include them in my savings.
A couple of mates of mine (law students at Uni) have told me that If I claim to have spent the money genuinely believing it was correct payment, then there is little they can do (whether this is true is a mystery to me). I appreciate it's probably me in the wrong for not chasing it up at the time etc, but was just wondering if there is anything I can argue against them, given I genuinely don't have £300 spare with rent payments and living costs etc.

Thanks in advance.

Im pretty sure legally they have to give you pay slips. I worked as a temp at sainsburys and still got them. I would think there is a certain amount of time after which they cannot ask for money back, but I have no idea how long it is.

My advice would be ignore and claim you never saw the letter, but I don't know if thats correct!

 

[dejavuatbtn]

The general view on these things is if you receive money you are not entitled to then it's not yours. However, I guess if it came to court there would be an argument that M&S were to blame in terms of their control, administration and communications. Best bet is to get someone to assist you in writing to M&S with a detailed account of what has happened and why it is unreasonable for them to expect you to reimburse them ( give them full reasons for this).
Good luck.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

I don't know the legal side of it however my wife was overpaid by her job and they gave us the option of paying it back in instalments so even if you they do make you pay you might be able to do it over several months especially if you tell them you can't afford it. We knew we'd been overpaid though so first thing to do would be to ask for some proof and explain that you don't think you owe it and why and see where that gets you

 

[Ernest]

Google the term Estoppel

 

[Cheshire Cat]

You must have had some documentation as you would have presumably been paying tax and NI. M&S must have provided payslips (online system rather than paper?). You can argue that you didn't know, but they will bill you and probably sue you if you refuse to pay (assuming you actually owe it). I wouldn't want to rely on an "ignorance" defence.

You can ask them for a break down of the payments made to you and how/why they think you were overpaid.

PS - you will definitely lose, as they will claim it was an overpayment by mistake and you had no reasonable expectation of entitlement to the money.

 

[Kumquat]

Sensible thing to do is agree to pay it back as it's not yours but you have total control over timescale. My brother was overpaid 2 grand by a similar company and offered them 10 quid a month. They weren't happy but agreed and eventually wrote it off. At the end of the day 1) It's not your money but 2) It is their fault. Make it clear above all when talking to them that it's their mistake but having thought you'd been paid what you were owed you can't possibly now afford to pay it back quickly as it's spent.

 

[sparkie]

Get a detailed breakdown of all your pay there and check the figures with your records. They may have made a mistake, and this then delays things anyway.

If you have to pay, suggest 25 pounds a month for a year, or similar.

 

[Kumquat]

Sensible thing to do is agree to pay it back as it's not yours but you have total control over timescale. My brother was overpaid 2 grand by a similar company and offered them 10 quid a month. They weren't happy but agreed and eventually wrote it off. At the end of the day 1) It's not your money but 2) It is their fault. Make it clear above all when talking to them that it's their mistake but having thought you'd been paid what you were owed you can't possibly now afford to pay it back quickly as it's spent.

 

[Husty]

First things first I'd ask for some evidence including a clear breakdown of what hours you worked when.

 

[Superphil]

Just tell them you did work those weeks, if they were so lax they didn't give you pay slips how can they prove you didn't actually work?

 

[MORTY]

Tell them to do one

 

[maltaseagull]

The general view on these things is if you receive money you are not entitled to then it's not yours. However, I guess if it came to court there would be an argument that M&S were to blame in terms of their control, administration and communications. Best bet is to get someone to assist you in writing to M&S with a detailed account of what has happened and why it is unreasonable for them to expect you to reimburse them ( give them full reasons for this).
Good luck.

Agreed if you don't respond they may be able to affect your credit rating and future references?

 

[mistahclarke]

Yeah, basically what others have said. Were you working directly for M+s or through an agency?
1) Ask for copies of all of your wages and hours recorded to have worked. Payslips are a legal requirement as far as I am aware.
2) Cross-reference these payslips with hours worked and pay received and look for short falls.
3) Check your holiday pay rights. You would accrued holiday each week you worked, and ensure you got that back
4) if you owe them money, agree a repayment plan.

You can speak to the CAB for advice or this looks promising -
https://www.gov.uk/employment-status
Contact Acas if you need advice on employment status, employee rights or employer responsibilities.

Acas helpline
08457 47 47 47
Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm
Saturday, 9am to 1pm

 

[Vegas Seagull]

Call a meeting to discuss at a place of your choice & ask them to bring data : they will write off

 

[British Bulldog]

I find it hard to believe a company like M&S wouldn't be doing a simple thing like giving out payslips.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

I find it hard to believe a company like M&S wouldn't be doing a simple thing like giving out payslips.

Me too, or a P45 when you leave.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Appreciate this is off-topic, and of no interest to the majority, but wondered if anyone could help me with an issue I've got regarding an overpayment of wages dating back to September/August last year.

I worked at M&S throughout the summer in order to get out of my overdraft whilst off University, and have just had a letter come through to me asking for £290 odd due to an overpayment of wages. Thing is, I wasn't receiving payslips (it was a temporary contract and thus payment just went into my back account and i'd check it that way) and so although I noticed a couple of payments the week after leaving the company (and following week), I didn't realise they were overpayments.
Thing is, the entire system was so confusing on a number of levels, for example the first weeks pay wasn't paid until you left the company (or something similar), and there was thus always a backlog of a week. There were also issues with me being taken off training pay (and onto qualified pay), which was a difference of about 60p an hour, which never happened despite me being qualified after 3/4 weeks, AND I was sure I was underpaid for some of the overtime that I had done for them. I therefore thought that these payments were what was genuinely owed to me, and accounted my spending as such to include them in my savings.
A couple of mates of mine (law students at Uni) have told me that If I claim to have spent the money genuinely believing it was correct payment, then there is little they can do (whether this is true is a mystery to me). I appreciate it's probably me in the wrong for not chasing it up at the time etc, but was just wondering if there is anything I can argue against them, given I genuinely don't have £300 spare with rent payments and living costs etc.

Thanks in advance.

You need to ask them for a complete breakdown of your wages whilst working for them. Overtime payments can miss a cut - off date and be paid the week after you have left , although working a week in hand will normally be settled correctly it could have been conveniently forgotten about. Without payslips you cannot work out how any calculations have been made by payroll , ie overtime , training rate or qualified rate.

 

[Lethargic]

You need to ask them for a complete breakdown of your wages whilst working for them. Overtime payments can miss a cut - off date and be paid the week after you have left , although working a week in hand will normally be settled correctly it could have been conveniently forgotten about. Without payslips you cannot work out how any calculations have been made by payroll , ie overtime , training rate or qualified rate.

Agree, legally you have to pay back overpayment but they have to provide the proof that you have been over paid, if they can't proof it then not sure they can enforce it. Also I think that worse case if you do have to pay it back then you can agree the terms of repayment they cannot force you to pay it back in one go as long as you have offered a repayment plan.