A27

[superwomen]

major accident on the A27 near Manor Farm (the argus) - do you think this raod needs to be a dual carriageway ! keep safe

 

[Lord Bracknell]

major accident on the A27 near Manor Farm (the argus) - do you think this raod needs to be a dual carriageway ! keep safe

Manor Farm? Do you think the Argus needs to learn a bit more about the geography of Sussex?

Seriously ... I was impressed by the way the police allowed me to get home past the road closure, even though the road was blocked off to through traffic. "Watch out for fire engines".

 

[superwomen]

dont blame the Argus is was my mistake (middle Farm) must apologise - sorry !!!

 

[Bry Nylon]

From BBC:

Ten people have been injured in a road crash in East Sussex, five of them seriously, Sussex Police have said.

Four vehicles collided on the A27 near Middle Farm near Lewes at about 15:30 GMT.

The road has been closed at the Beddingham roundabout to the west and the Drusillas roundabout to the east.

Emergency services are on the scene and there is major disruption to rush-hour traffic. Police are advising motorists to avoid the area.

 

[eastterracemike]

Norman Baker has a lot to answer for -against the Amex and a strong opponent of dualling the notorious A27. Should have been widened years ago, Its a complete nightmare .

 

[Matrix10]

major accident on the A27 near Manor Farm (the argus) - do you think this raod needs to be a dual carriageway ! keep safe

I remember when I moved down to Sussex in 1960 there were signs up along the A27 stating the forthcoming Folkestone to Honiton Trunk Road.....a long time forthcoming

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I remember when I moved down to Sussex in 1960 there were signs up along the A27 stating the forthcoming Folkestone to Honiton Trunk Road.....a long time forthcoming

It was first called that in 1936, when the Trunk Roads Act was passed and the government took over control of major routes from the county councils.

It's now called the South Coast Trunk Road and, since the detrunking of the Folkestone to Brenzett section of the A259, is now the Ashford to Honiton trunk route. Anyone going from Ashford to Honiton wouldn't touch it, of course, but would use the shorter route - M20, M25, M3, A303, A30 and A35 - and save a couple of hours.

Dualling the lot would, of course, result in the Brighton Bypass being overwhelmed with traffic and make it impossible to get to games at the Amex.

 

[skipper734]

One thing I've always wondered why did they only want to go to Honiton. It's in the middle of nowhere, there's a lot more westwards.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

One thing I've always wondered why did they only want to go to Honiton. It's in the middle of nowhere, there's a lot more westwards.

West of Honiton, you join the Leeds to Exeter Trunk Road.

 

[beorhthelm]

my Grandad used to bemoan the lack of a proper dual carriage/trunk roads across East Sussex, said it held the county back. you can see his point, feels like a backwater of the country despite being under 50 miles from London.

problem is, too many people like it just that way, so not likly to change.

 

[Brovion]

my Grandad used to bemoan the lack of a proper dual carriage/trunk roads across East Sussex, said it held the county back. you can see his point, feels like a backwater of the country despite being under 50 miles from London.

problem is, too many people like it just that way, so not likly to change.

Ditto the westward section between Shoreham and Chichester. The whole thing is just a randomly-planned, piecemeal collection of roundabout-infested by-passes and road-widenings linked by country lanes. It will never change, not only because the country-dwelling Tories don't want developments going past their homes but also because the government are quite happy to see congested and fractured roads as it means loads more fuel tax.

Actually I notice Lord Bracknell's changed his tune a bit on this. He used to be opposed to making it a proper road as 'no one would use it'.

 

[APACHE]

Nothing wrong with this part of the road, it's the drivers who will insist in overtaking anything that's not doing 50+. Most of the time the traffic moves well but people will try and speed and overtake at the wrong time.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Ditto the westward section between Shoreham and Chichester. The whole thing is just a randomly-planned, piecemeal collection of roundabout-infested by-passes and road-widenings linked by country lanes. It will never change, not only because the country-dwelling Tories don't want developments going past their homes but also because the government are quite happy to see congested and fractured roads as it means loads more fuel tax.

Actually I notice Lord Bracknell's changed his tune a bit on this. He used to be opposed to making it a proper road as 'no one would use it'.

My objection was to the only dual carriageway scheme that has ever actually been proposed by the Highways Agency for the stretch of the A27 at Firle.

This had no junctions with any of the side roads that local people need - and would have involved the retention of the current dangerous road for a very high volume of local traffic. In the immediate vicinity of Firle (where there are already two parallel roads - the "old" A27 and the current one), the plan was to build a third one. It was a ridiculous scheme and was opposed by almost everyone round here who uses the road daily.

 

[skipper734]

West of Honiton, you join the Leeds to Exeter Trunk Road.

So they built the M5. There's a bit of a gap. This is not joined up thinking. The road that will never be built should be called the Ashford to Exeter Trunk Road. (Trunk Road, Tee He. Do Transport Companies still call their 44 Tonners Trunkers?)

 

[Brovion]

My objection was to the only dual carriageway scheme that has ever actually been proposed by the Highways Agency for the stretch of the A27 at Firle.

This had no junctions with any of the side roads that local people need - and would have involved the retention of the current dangerous road for a very high volume of local traffic. In the immediate vicinity of Firle (where there are already two parallel roads - the "old" A27 and the current one), the plan was to build a third one. It was a ridiculous scheme and was opposed by almost everyone round here who uses the road daily.

I'll take your word on the suitability of the scheme, the proposed Worthing bypass route wasn't universally popular either - indeed I was one of those who thought the route should be further north. However the fact that there has only been one scheme proposed is indicative of the situation: nobody really wants to tackle the problem.

However that's all beside the point. My argument with you is that when we've discussed this in the past you were opposed to the A27 being a 'proper' road on the grounds that it would be an over-development as surveys indicated that no one used it as an east/west trunkroad. (My argument was that the surveys would indicate that as no one used it because it's shit). Now you're saying that it would be 'bad' because it would increase the traffic going past the Amex on a matchday.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Big credit to our fans that drive in almost every week from beyond Chichester. I used to loathe working in Chichester. A small city, but takes forever to get round with a huge number of roundabouts, then the bottle neck of Arundel and the winding roads through Worthing and the suburbs. Terrible road.

I've been going to Southampton regularly for my cochlear implant and will be glad to see the back of that journey.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I'll take your word on the suitability of the scheme, the proposed Worthing bypass route wasn't universally popular either - indeed I was one of those who thought the route should be further north. However the fact that there has only been one scheme proposed is indicative of the situation: nobody really wants to tackle the problem.

However that's all beside the point. My argument with you is that when we've discussed this in the past you were opposed to the A27 being a 'proper' road on the grounds that it would be an over-development as surveys indicated that no one used it as an east/west trunkroad. (My argument was that the surveys would indicate that as no one used it because it's shit). Now you're saying that it would be 'bad' because it would increase the traffic going past the Amex on a matchday.

You're confusing two quite separate points.

The first is that the A27 in Sussex is mainly a local road, serving relatively short journeys that are from one place in the county to another (eg Lewes to Sussex University, or Lancing to Brighton). It therefore needs to be planned and designed to meet these local needs.

The second point is that an end-to-end motorway-type route would be a strategic inter-city jobby. It would be used as the main route from the Channel Tunnel to Brighton, Portsmouth and Southampton. This would attract huge amounts of traffic off the M20, M25 etc - and would have the effect of clagging up the Brighton Bypass. Getting to the Amex WOULD become a nightmare.

 

[Brovion]

You're confusing two quite separate points.

The first is that the A27 in Sussex is mainly a local road, serving relatively short journeys that are from one place in the county to another (eg Lewes to Sussex University, or Lancing to Brighton). It therefore needs to be planned and designed to meet these local needs.

The second point is that an end-to-end motorway-type route would be a strategic inter-city jobby. It would be used as the main route from the Channel Tunnel to Brighton, Portsmouth and Southampton. This would attract huge amounts of traffic off the M20, M25 etc - and would have the effect of clagging up the Brighton Bypass. Getting to the Amex WOULD become a nightmare.

Well yes I think it should be an alternative main road route from the Channel tunnel to Brighton and points west. But even if I accept your argument that it should be a predominantly local road the fact remains that in it's current state it isn't fit for purpose, especially the section between Shoreham and the west of Chichester (which I appreciate isn't the section under discussion here).

And you try telling Attila that the way from Brighton to Dover is via the M25 ....

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Having been both a member of the local community and serving in emergency services regularly having to deal with the aftermath of RTCs along the A27 over the last 30 years or so I'm sorry but hardly surprised to hear of yet another RTC on the A27 near Middle Farm. I have seen the distress and suffering to victims at first hand so would wholly agree that the road should be upgraded - but also with the most sympathetic options for the environment and local communities at Firle etc.

That stretch to/from Selmeston is no more than a country lane and nowhere near decent 'A' road standard. At peak times I often avoided this stretch because of the traffic volumes and likelyhood of disruption. For my regular Lewes - Eastbourne commute I either used the C7 (notorious in its own right, although some parts of it are better than the A27!) and A259, or the Ringmer/A22 route. however the traffic displaced from a substandard A27 must be to the detriment of the villages on those side roads.

Norman Baker rightly campaigned for improvements to public transport and is to be admired for that. However for those of us with no choice but to use a car it was so frustrating that his anti road improvement stance was such very significant factor in the political inertia over the dualling of the A27 from Lewes - Polegate. Especially when many of his constituents have been killed or injured 'on his watch'. I have debated this point with him in the past and he always remained intransigent.

Some of these RTCs are caused by non-local drivers unfamiliar with this road. One can drive for hundreds of miles across the UK to Beddingham on dualled or motorway standard roads at or above the national speed limit but suddenly becomes a very poor standard single lane with various new hazards. It is not surprising that drivers unfamiliar with this road still try to drive at inappropriate speeds, get impatient and overtake. Yes it is about drivers acting responsibly, allowing for road conditions and I recognise that serious accidents still occur on dualled roads but at some point an engineering solution to seperate the traffic streams seems essential.

Sadly the case for road improvements are based on statistics for fatalities and injury which can be misleading as these often only show fatalities 'at the scene' and do not take into account those that subsequently die in hospital days or weeks later.

Plus for someone proclaiming to promote the economic well being of Newhaven and its ferry port etc it is bizarre that Norman Baker never supported the proper upgrading of the A27 / A26 to encourage more commercial traffic. This has also made Eastbourne and Hastings far less viable for business investment as well as deterring tourists and locals. This would also bring relief to the villages on the C7 and A259 etc. The only recent 'upgrade' of the A27 at Southerham - Beddingham (lets call it 'Baker's Folly') was welcome but with no central seperation was an obvious recipe for further trouble.

Sadly the cutbacks in public spending probably mean that the necessary improvements are unlikely to occur for the foreseeable future. A few years ago the financial 'cost' of a 'typical' fatal road accident to the NHS and other agencies in the UK was estimated around £1m (let alone the wider costs of disruption to the economy), this is probably much higher now, so it is quite possible the cost of physical road improvements would have been significantly offset, as well as freeing up capacity in the NHS etc.

In the meantime there will have to be more educational campaigns by the relevant agencies/partnerships as well as passive measures such as warning signage with casualty rates maybe even designate it a 'red route' like some Counties are more willing to do to promote awareness on dangerous roads in the hope of reducing casualty rates etc. Sorry for the lengthy rant but it is a matter I feel strongly about and frustrated at the years of inertia and ongoing casualties.

 

[PHCgull]

I cant get my head round why the bit from beddingham to wilmington can't be straightened and/or dualled.

It's fields/open land on both sides virtually all the way, and there are very very few houses directly on the road... middle farm might lose a bit of carpark and a few houses in selmeston might have to go, but berwick and firle are for the most part set miles back from the existing road...