A thread for the people of Aleppo

[BadFish]

I've got to be honest, I'm just bewildered by it all. IS are scumbags, Assad is a scumbag, and in Hezbollah, Russia and Iran you almost seem to get the Holy trinity of headmental. I don't understand who's right, who's wrong or who should be put up against the wall and shot first. But the people who suffer most are the innocents. Get them out, and let the rest of them tear each other apart in some ****ed up Mad max style fight to the death, where the winners end up with what used to be a city, but is now just smouldering ruins.

Far better to demonise those innocents and blame them for all our woes. The situation is ****ed i agree but so is our reaction to it.

 

[daveinprague]

I thought the thread intention was clear? I can't put it better than the original post.

Like I say, civil wars always result in civilians being slaughtered by one side or another. Plenty of Syrians have been killed in the city because they were presumed to be Assad supporters. Its horrible, civil wars always are.

 

[goldstone]

There was a couple with a young baby interviewed on the BBC news in Aleppo earlier this week. What are people doing having babies while living in a city uner seige? How irresponsible can you get? Surely they can put their plans for a family on hold until the situation sorts itself out? Can anyone justify bringing a baby into the world under those circumstances? It's the same everywhere. Refugees on boats in the Mediterranean with newborn babies. People living in appalling conditions in refugee camps with newborn babies. Can Muslim men (and they are all Muslims) not understand that there are times when it is not appropriate or fair to get their wives pregnant? Clearly they couldn't give a damn.

 

[Machiavelli]

Thanks very much to the OP for starting a long overdue thread. The people of eastern Aleppo are reaping what has been sown over several decades, but particularly during this millennium. It's a tragedy, and I actually think the House of Commons managed to articulate the dire situation very ably earlier this week.

Now to the key point: our international system -- created in the aftermath of a larger-scale tragedy, WW2 -- is broken, breaking down, and is utterly unable to respond to events. It needs to be reconfigured, but there's next to no chance of that happening for years, probably decades, given the current wave of nationalism. In all likelihood, we'll need more and bigger tragedies before there's a wider recognition of the requirement to do this. Without wanting to go too deep into futurology, I suspect that rather than one big event (like WW2), what will trigger this is the accumulation of events (in no small part caused by climate change).

In the meantime, China will continue to seek to gradually expand its regional sphere of influence, Trump will meld together that incredible paradox of being both isolationist and reactive, and Putin will continue to take advantage of international timidity to deflect from domestic shortcomings. In the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Israel will continue to be provocative, seeking to expand their own interests.

 

[Insel affe]

There was a couple with a young baby interviewed on the BBC news in Aleppo earlier this week. What are people doing having babies while living in a city uner seige? How irresponsible can you get? Surely they can put their plans for a family on hold until the situation sorts itself out? Can anyone justify bringing a baby into the world under those circumstances? It's the same everywhere. Refugees on boats in the Mediterranean with newborn babies. People living in appalling conditions in refugee camps with newborn babies. Can Muslim men (and they are all Muslims) not understand that there are times when it is not appropriate or fair to get their wives pregnant? Clearly they couldn't give a damn.

Come on the tv probably won't work either that or it will be showing state sponsored propaganda nowt worth watching anyway.... It's not actually that safe to go out, least of all pop to the chemist to buy some condoms if you can spare the money.... think about it..

What else you gonna do...

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It's hard to intervene if one is part of the plot to destabilise a country and topple the government in the first place. We are party to supporting and militarising foreign fighters in Syria yet we pretend that we haven’t intervened when we blatantly have.

If intervening now or before means air striking the Syrian government and its army then we might as well hand over Syria to the Islamic State.

By 'plot' do you mean Syrian people following others lead in the Arab Spring .. protesting against the Assad regime, wanting more freedom and democracy?

We only became involved much later because of the brutal response of the Syrian government.

 

[Questions]

There was a couple with a young baby interviewed on the BBC news in Aleppo earlier this week. What are people doing having babies while living in a city uner seige? How irresponsible can you get? Surely they can put their plans for a family on hold until the situation sorts itself out? Can anyone justify bringing a baby into the world under those circumstances? It's the same everywhere. Refugees on boats in the Mediterranean with newborn babies. People living in appalling conditions in refugee camps with newborn babies. Can Muslim men (and they are all Muslims) not understand that there are times when it is not appropriate or fair to get their wives pregnant? Clearly they couldn't give a damn.

Having a baby during the Roman occupation of Jerusalem and its surrounding towns and villages...pah ....Merry Xmas everyone X X

 

[daveinprague]

By 'plot' do you mean Syrian people following others lead in the Arab Spring .. protesting against the Assad regime, wanting more freedom and democracy?

We only became involved much later because of the brutal response of the Syrian government.

It became brutal because of groups such as ISIS and Al Nusra joining the fighting. Most of the Syrian people appear to actually support the government, as demonstrated by celebrations in the streets in West Aleppo when the government forces took most of the city back. Maybe im wrong, but do you know the percentage of support for the rebels among the general Syrian population. People always want change, but im not so sure this was a popular uprising by the majority of the citizens, but, like I say, im not entirely sure.

 

[BadFish]

Having a baby during the Roman occupation of Jerusalem and its surrounding towns and villages...pah ....Merry Xmas everyone X X

....and look at all the trouble that has caused. Goldstone is right.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

There was a couple with a young baby interviewed on the BBC news in Aleppo earlier this week. What are people doing having babies while living in a city uner seige? How irresponsible can you get? Surely they can put their plans for a family on hold until the situation sorts itself out? Can anyone justify bringing a baby into the world under those circumstances? It's the same everywhere. Refugees on boats in the Mediterranean with newborn babies. People living in appalling conditions in refugee camps with newborn babies. Can Muslim men (and they are all Muslims) not understand that there are times when it is not appropriate or fair to get their wives pregnant? Clearly they couldn't give a damn.

A bit like having a baby during the blitz?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It became brutal because of groups such as ISIS and Al Nusra joining the fighting. Most of the Syrian people appear to actually support the government, as demonstrated by celebrations in the streets in West Aleppo when the government forces took most of the city back. Maybe im wrong, but do you know the percentage of support for the rebels among the general Syrian population. People always want change, but im not so sure this was a popular uprising by the majority of the citizens, but, like I say, im not entirely sure.

Depends if you define firing at and killing protesting civillians as brutal. This crackdown happened long before ISIS and other groups joined in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26116868

I think if I was a civilian in West Aleppo I would be cheering the government forces ... mainly out of fear of being shot.

http://news.sky.com/story/aleppo-civilians-shot-on-the-spot-in-their-homes-un-10694329

Just to add I'm not claiming any more understanding of this devilishly complex conflict than anyone else but thought the Syrian government, Russia, Iran have a lot of blood on their hands.

 

[daveinprague]

Depends if you define firing at and killing protesting civillians as brutal. This crackdown happened long before ISIS and other groups joined in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26116868

I think if I was a civilian in West Aleppo I would be cheering the government forces ... mainly out of fear of being shot.

http://news.sky.com/story/aleppo-civilians-shot-on-the-spot-in-their-homes-un-10694329

Just to add I'm not claiming any more understanding of this devilishly complex conflict than anyone else but thought the Syrian government, Russia, Iran have a lot of blood on their hands.

We dont know enough, im not certain that the majority of Syrians support or supported the rebels though. There really is no need for the population of West Allepo to have street celebrations out of fear of being shot otherwise, Really, no need, so I dont go with that, as it has been a government area for a considerable time. As for blood on hands, I think everybodies hands are dripping.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Watching the news today of families under siege and, by all accounts, being slaughtered, I felt that I wanted to offer my personal sadness that we in the west have not been able to find a way to prevent or stop this. I guess I could never have supported sending our troops in to keep these murderers apart and maybe this was the prevailing view and so we have arrived at today's carnage.

Sorry Aleppo, for what that's worth.

Anyone?

I was thinking of starting a thread along the same lines as you..so well done for bothering ..pity some have just used it as a platform for there own views on the whole situation out there.

 

[looney]

What about the 'Muslim' towns ?

I
Christians have much to fear from them. Muslims much more so.

They, shia, dont have so far to run being next to Iraq/Iran. Although some have managed to leg it all the way across a continent or 2 to sweden etc.

 

[symyjym]

By 'plot' do you mean Syrian people following others lead in the Arab Spring .. protesting against the Assad regime, wanting more freedom and democracy?

We only became involved much later because of the brutal response of the Syrian government.

Are you talking about the same peaceful protest that was infiltrated by foreign fighters who killed 7 Syrian policemen?

If you think we only got involved later you are deluded.