[Albion] A question for all the pro potter fans on the board

[Marshy]

What we are lacking is turning chances into goals. If the chances dry up, then we are in trouble. All the time the answer is "we need a striker" you can't really solve the issue by sacking the manager.

Exactly my thoughts

 

[Lenny Rider]

The sad part for me is looking at the content of this thread and others on NSC, Potter has polarised opinion within the core support to a degree I cannot remember for many years.

I will still respect the opinion of those who still wish to back him, but sorry cannot agree.

Stupidly, and I should know better, I got embroiled in a FB argument last night about Potter being the worst ever Albion boss since I started watching in 73.

Wood and Hypia were names thrown back at me, but look at the squads those two both had?

This Albion squad is the strongest in the club's history, yet we've gone a whole year with one home league win, and that was a 94th minute winner as well.

The bottom line is its down to Tony Bloom, he clearly sees things differently to the majority of us or, as no one has even thought about, are there other more important personal issues in his life at the moment which means football rightly has to take a back seat?

He's previously sacked 8 managers, albeit the first three with Dick Knight as a front man, so he's done it before it when its been necessary.

Lets just hope we beat Wolves and go into 2021 in that all important 17th position.

Happy New Year.

 

[rippleman]

If we were relegated and we were not pushing for a top 6 finish in the championship.

Potter is exactly the sort of manager that Bloom, Barber and Ashworth want. He plays a passing game and is brave at allowing youngsters to gain experience. I don't see who would be a better replacement for the club and that would continue to work towards their long-term goals

Much has been spoken here about relegation not being too much of an issue assuming we will just bounce straight back up. What is overlooked is the fact that for every West Brom, Fulham, Norwich there is a Wigan, Sunderland, Nottingham Forest etc.

I would caution those believing that relegation would not be a problem for us to be careful what you are happy to accept. There is absolutely no guarantee that we would walk the Championship and immediately return to the EPL. None at all.

 

[raymondo]

​

I'm cutting Potter plenty of slack. I remember the year after both my parents died I wasn't at my best at work: I was tetchy, a bit bloody minded, my judgement wobbly. So, IMHO, we haven't seen him at his best yet. I'm Potter in. (I know...wrong thread)

 

[Surf's Up]

The decision is Blooms and I suspect he finds himself on the horns of a dilemma. Either he continues to back Potter, in which case he'll need to break the habit of a lifetime and pay the market price/invest heavily in at least one, maybe two, players who can score between 10 - 20 Premier League goals a season or accept that his continued backing may see the club get relegated into the most difficult league in the world....or, sack Potter now, bite the bullet on paying off some of his 5-6 year contract and bring in a manager who can marry Potterball with some physicality, determination, desire to win and ruthlessness, starting with sorting out the defence. But he'll still need to find that 10-20 goals a season striker from somewhere.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lens]

Tony knows its a risk but would he watch us sleepwalk into a relegation? This is what he said when he sacked Hughton.

"Undoubtedly, this has been one of the most difficult decisions I have had to make as chairman of Brighton & Hove Albion, but ultimately one I have made due to how we struggled in the second half of the season.

"Our run of 3 wins from 23 Premier League matches put our status at significant risk. It is with that in mind, and the performances during that period, that I now feel it’s the right time for a change.


Potter has won 5 in 35 games (I think its roughly that). If that form continues then he will put our status at significant risk.

Accepting that one day we will get relegated, and just standing by doing nothing while getting relegated are two different things. I want Potter to succeed but I don't want us to go down because we were too scared to change anything.

The additional bold text, "the performances during that time" are absolutely vital to the quote. This is the key difference for me at the moment and why I don't think TB will make the decision to change right now. Ultimately CH kept us up, so you could say that the performances were the key rationale for the change, not safety per se. This is why stats are still important - how can you measure improvement, progression towards the key outcome, points on the board. The fear thing is interesting. It would be a huge mistake to not make a decision because you are fearful Equally, it would be a huge mistake to make a decision driven by fear. Having the courage to stick to a longer-term, better outcome at the expense of short-term, gains. This is the dilemma facing the Club right now. I think TB will make the call if and when he thinks the progression has stopped and the longer-term outcome is jeopardised. Nobody in the "Potter debate" wants us to go down. (There are those who would prefer us to be playing in the Championship if a previous thread is an indicator) But, I, and some others classed "pro-Potter", accept that relegation is a risk as it is to so many of the bottom 10-12 teams every year, and in itself doesn't have to mean that the longer-term outcome is unachievable.
I don't believe it's "sleepwalking" or "deluded".
All a rather long-winded way of saying that change will come when TB decides the plan is failing, but I don't think that results on their own will be the issue unless the monies in the PL for this season are the most important element to the plan. They are undoubtedly helpful/preferable, but may not be critical. If they are, then TB will act sooner rather than later. If Saints and Leicester are clubs that we see as models for success, Sevilla is another, then coaching changes will and do get made when the critical success factors are threatened. Ranieri won the PL FFS, and was binned. Puel was sacked, from both, Hassenhutl wasn't sacked from Saints because presumably they could see/believe that progress was being made beyond the results themselves - i think they were 2nd to bottom and just lost 0-9 at home. We havent hit those depths yet, we might, but again, they might not be the reason to get rid in TB eyes - but I just don't think it will be because he is too scared to make the call.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lens]

Much has been spoken here about relegation not being too much of an issue assuming we will just bounce straight back up. What is overlooked is the fact that for every West Brom, Fulham, Norwich there is a Wigan, Sunderland, Nottingham Forest etc.

I would caution those believing that relegation would not be a problem for us to be careful what you are happy to accept. There is absolutely no guarantee that we would walk the Championship and immediately return to the EPL. None at all.

I don't think anyone assumes that promotion is assured. But as you say there are cases where it has happened and most of the ones you quote have key differences : It happens more often now, arguably because the teams coming down are more financially secure than earlier cases of relegation. I think its the point that the vision for PL top 10 is not irretrievably dashed by relegation. Top 10 PL may end up being a pipe dream, but the plan to deliver it, invest in youth, develop players that can be sold for huge profit and reinvested, sprinkle with experience and increasing quality, feels like the right one and by the way also means we have a chance to compete for promotion again without turning into Sunderland.
Newcastle, Villa, West Ham Watford have done it recently too and any of the 3 from last year have made a strong start to getting back.. staying up would of course be preferable.

 

[boik]

We really aren’t close to being ‘good’. I don’t need to go any further than one point ten man Sheffield Utd.

Liverpool hot thrashed by villa but I'm sure you aren't stupid enough to say that liverpool aren't any good. Football is a game of ups and downs. If you want guaranteed wins best support Bayern maybe,

 

[Kosh]

​

I'm cutting Potter plenty of slack. I remember the year after both my parents died I wasn't at my best at work: I was tetchy, a bit bloody minded, my judgement wobbly. So, IMHO, we haven't seen him at his best yet. I'm Potter in. (I know...wrong thread)

Very good points and sorry to read that btw... yes he’s probably had a very tough year or so... ultimately GP is determined and hopefully we’ll beat Wolves (if the game goes ahead) and things will look better for us all. I genuinely hope that’s the case

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This I know but the point remains valid. He’s a mathematical genius trusting in statistical analysis of risk v reward. It’s not for us to question the methods that made him.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The additional bold text, "the performances during that time" are absolutely vital to the quote. This is the key difference for me at the moment and why I don't think TB will make the decision to change right now. Ultimately CH kept us up, so you could say that the performances were the key rationale for the change, not safety per se. This is why stats are still important - how can you measure improvement, progression towards the key outcome, points on the board. The fear thing is interesting. It would be a huge mistake to not make a decision because you are fearful Equally, it would be a huge mistake to make a decision driven by fear. Having the courage to stick to a longer-term, better outcome at the expense of short-term, gains. This is the dilemma facing the Club right now. I think TB will make the call if and when he thinks the progression has stopped and the longer-term outcome is jeopardised. Nobody in the "Potter debate" wants us to go down. (There are those who would prefer us to be playing in the Championship if a previous thread is an indicator) But, I, and some others classed "pro-Potter", accept that relegation is a risk as it is to so many of the bottom 10-12 teams every year, and in itself doesn't have to mean that the longer-term outcome is unachievable.
I don't believe it's "sleepwalking" or "deluded".
All a rather long-winded way of saying that change will come when TB decides the plan is failing, but I don't think that results on their own will be the issue unless the monies in the PL for this season are the most important element to the plan. They are undoubtedly helpful/preferable, but may not be critical. If they are, then TB will act sooner rather than later. If Saints and Leicester are clubs that we see as models for success, Sevilla is another, then coaching changes will and do get made when the critical success factors are threatened. Ranieri won the PL FFS, and was binned. Puel was sacked, from both, Hassenhutl wasn't sacked from Saints because presumably they could see/believe that progress was being made beyond the results themselves - i think they were 2nd to bottom and just lost 0-9 at home. We havent hit those depths yet, we might, but again, they might not be the reason to get rid in TB eyes - but I just don't think it will be because he is too scared to make the call.

This.

 

[Justice]

Liverpool hot thrashed by villa but I'm sure you aren't stupid enough to say that liverpool aren't any good. Football is a game of ups and downs. If you want guaranteed wins best support Bayern maybe,

The classic go and support xxx because someone voices an opinion you don’t agree with. It is an easy way out when you don’t have a counter point of view.

 

[andy1980]

The additional bold text, "the performances during that time" are absolutely vital to the quote. This is the key difference for me at the moment and why I don't think TB will make the decision to change right now. Ultimately CH kept us up, so you could say that the performances were the key rationale for the change, not safety per se. This is why stats are still important - how can you measure improvement, progression towards the key outcome, points on the board. The fear thing is interesting. It would be a huge mistake to not make a decision because you are fearful Equally, it would be a huge mistake to make a decision driven by fear. Having the courage to stick to a longer-term, better outcome at the expense of short-term, gains. This is the dilemma facing the Club right now. I think TB will make the call if and when he thinks the progression has stopped and the longer-term outcome is jeopardised. Nobody in the "Potter debate" wants us to go down. (There are those who would prefer us to be playing in the Championship if a previous thread is an indicator) But, I, and some others classed "pro-Potter", accept that relegation is a risk as it is to so many of the bottom 10-12 teams every year, and in itself doesn't have to mean that the longer-term outcome is unachievable.
I don't believe it's "sleepwalking" or "deluded".
All a rather long-winded way of saying that change will come when TB decides the plan is failing, but I don't think that results on their own will be the issue unless the monies in the PL for this season are the most important element to the plan. They are undoubtedly helpful/preferable, but may not be critical. If they are, then TB will act sooner rather than later. If Saints and Leicester are clubs that we see as models for success, Sevilla is another, then coaching changes will and do get made when the critical success factors are threatened. Ranieri won the PL FFS, and was binned. Puel was sacked, from both, Hassenhutl wasn't sacked from Saints because presumably they could see/believe that progress was being made beyond the results themselves - i think they were 2nd to bottom and just lost 0-9 at home. We havent hit those depths yet, we might, but again, they might not be the reason to get rid in TB eyes - but I just don't think it will be because he is too scared to make the call.

I actually agree with a lot of what you say. From what I hear over the net etc. Potter isn't going anywhere, but I fear we will get relegated this season. I hope that if Bloom does hold his nerve then the long term ambition comes of.

I hate feeling this way about the Albion, and its a situation I rarely find my self in. If Swansmans prediction of 6/7 wins for the rest of the season comes true then Potter has me back on side, and I can happily live in my blue and white bubble again.

There is no guarantee that if we get relegated we will come back up again, but I can accept the stats say Potter is doing a good job, and Bloom is a stats man. I have to trust Bloom on this but it is against my gut feeling and its really hard for me at the moment.

 

[Barham's tash]

The decision is Blooms and I suspect he finds himself on the horns of a dilemma. Either he continues to back Potter, in which case he'll need to break the habit of a lifetime and pay the market price/invest heavily in at least one, maybe two, players who can score between 10 - 20 Premier League goals a season or accept that his continued backing may see the club get relegated into the most difficult league in the world....or, sack Potter now, bite the bullet on paying off some of his 5-6 year contract and bring in a manager who can marry Potterball with some physicality, determination, desire to win and ruthlessness, starting with sorting out the defence. But he'll still need to find that 10-20 goals a season striker from somewhere.

I agree to an extent but...

1. Potter himself has stated the length of contract is not mirrored by any severance clause - there is a pre-defined sum for that happening so cost is frankly irrelevant.
2. I believe the first step to 'sorting out the defence' has been taken by introducing a more aerial dominant GK [Sorry Maty but you were never that or likely to become that]
3. My only gripe GP really is with how we're currently set up defensively and the persistence with zonal marking. Ditch that and along with the GK change then I think we'll be fine. That aside the football is fantastic, we're blooding youngsters left right and centre and those aspects i'm absolutely loving [sure we haven't played glittering one touch pass and move consistently at pace or every game but then who does, even Liverpool and City have off days but that's some benchmark right?]
4. My only gripe with TB right now is the lack of a proven striker but aside from a short Murray/Championship related interlude that's now been a problem for 9 seasons.

To my mind the far bigger decision weighing on TB's mind right now out of whether to bin Potter or spin the wheel and gamble another £40-50m on a striker is definitely the latter. He will be kicking himself i'm sure that we didn't go all out to get Watkins.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Tony knows its a risk but would he watch us sleepwalk into a relegation? This is what he said when he sacked Hughton.

"Undoubtedly, this has been one of the most difficult decisions I have had to make as chairman of Brighton & Hove Albion, but ultimately one I have made due to how we struggled in the second half of the season.

"Our run of 3 wins from 23 Premier League matches put our status at significant risk. It is with that in mind, and the performances during that period, that I now feel it’s the right time for a change.


Potter has won 5 in 35 games (I think its roughly that). If that form continues then he will put our status at significant risk.

Accepting that one day we will get relegated, and just standing by doing nothing while getting relegated are two different things. I want Potter to succeed but I don't want us to go down because we were too scared to change anything.

One can pick and chose Tony's words. I don't think that he's being hypocritical by retaining Potter when he sacked Hughton for less, if that's your thinking. To the 'between the lines' bit is that Tony thought things would never change under Hughton, and that the turgid football had aligned with poor results (remember the Bournmouth game - they had gone around 9 without a win then tonked us 5-0) and it was all going in one direction - shitter, without style or hope. It was the manner of 'how we struggled' combined with an almost inevitable failure and relegatiuon the following season that forced Tony's hand. I would argue that people have very short memories; the worst performance in the last 3 years was not Sheffield United the other week. I was walking out of the Amex after 70 minutes (as opposed to my standard 85) during Hughton's last season. We were rubbish and going nowhere. I don't feel remotely like this presently. If I had to find some words the ones that spring to mind are 'unlucky' and 'not sharp enough in front of goal'. That is a far cry from 'turgid, boring, negative, clueless' and 'there is no hope'.

Finally, I don't think that Tony is 'too scared to change' the manager, if that's what you mean. And I'm pretty sure nobody at the club is too scared to change anything. It's shitty being so close to he drop but that doesn't mean the owner and the staff aren't considering all options. Hughton picked the same team every week and made the same substitutions at the same time of the match, to the point when I'd say 'he's going to bring X on for Y now' and when proven right would give it another 10 minutes then walk out. It was utter, utter shit. Lest we not forget.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lens]

I actually agree with a lot of what you say. From what I hear over the net etc. Potter isn't going anywhere, but I fear we will get relegated this season. I hope that if Bloom does hold his nerve then the long term ambition comes of.

I hate feeling this way about the Albion, and its a situation I rarely find my self in. If Swansmans prediction of 6/7 wins for the rest of the season comes true then Potter has me back on side, and I can happily live in my blue and white bubble again.

There is no guarantee that if we get relegated we will come back up again, but I can accept the stats say Potter is doing a good job, and Bloom is a stats man. I have to trust Bloom on this but it is against my gut feeling and its really hard for me at the moment.

It is for a lot of us, me included!! Its the frustration that is driving us insane.. frustration for me because I think we are very close to being so much better. Others don't agree with that, and presumably frustration is driving that too. I take hope from the fact that I think there has only be one game where it didn't look like we would get anything for the majority of the game, Leicester, and even then we should have been leading! There will be other games like that, but I think we can play to win/score and we will have games when the chances go in. We can adopt a more defensive style if we need to (that might happen sooner rather than later) and pick up points in that manner, drawing more games probably.

 

[Justice]

My question is how are we ever going to stay up when we can’t win a home game? 7/8 away wins seem very unlikely.

 

[andy1980]

One can pick and chose Tony's words. I don't think that he's being hypocritical by retaining Potter when he sacked Hughton for less, if that's your thinking. To the 'between the lines' bit is that Tony thought things would never change under Hughton, and that the turgid football had aligned with poor results (remember the Bournmouth game - they had gone around 9 without a win then tonked us 5-0) and it was all going in one direction - shitter, without style or hope. It was the manner of 'how we struggled' combined with an almost inevitable failure and relegatiuon the following season that forced Tony's hand. I would argue that people have very short memories; the worst performance in the last 3 years was not Sheffield United the other week. I was walking out of the Amex after 70 minutes (as opposed to my standard 85) during Hughton's last season. We were rubbish and going nowhere. I don't feel remotely like this presently. If I had to find some words the ones that spring to mind are 'unlucky' and 'not sharp enough in front of goal'. That is a far cry from 'turgid, boring, negative, clueless' and 'there is no hope'.

Finally, I don't think that Tony is 'too scared to change' the manager, if that's what you mean. And I'm pretty sure nobody at the club is too scared to change anything. It's shitty being so close to he drop but that doesn't mean the owner and the staff aren't considering all options. Hughton picked the same team every week and made the same substitutions at the same time of the match, to the point when I'd say 'he's going to bring X on for Y now' and when proven right would give it another 10 minutes then walk out. It was utter, utter shit. Lest we not forget.

I don't think Tonys being hypercritical. I was trying to show that he values being in the Premier League, and perhaps he is not as open to being back in the Championship as many believe, but he does believe that one day it is going to happen.

I hope he is not to scared. He has huge believes in stats, and I understand that. I just hope he carries on basing things on that rather than being scared of making the wrong choice. I am sure you are right though and he isn't scared.

I think if Potter is still here after relegation it will be because he is reading the stats and not results.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don't think Tonys being hypercritical. I was trying to show that he values being in the Premier League, and perhaps he is not as open to being back in the Championship as many believe, but he does believe that one day it is going to happen.

I hope he is not to scared. He has huge believes in stats, and I understand that. I just hope he carries on basing things on that rather than being scared of making the wrong choice. I am sure you are right though and he isn't scared.

I think if Potter is still here after relegation it will be because he is reading the stats and not results.

 

[andy1980]

It is for a lot of us, me included!! Its the frustration that is driving us insane.. frustration for me because I think we are very close to being so much better. Others don't agree with that, and presumably frustration is driving that too. I take hope from the fact that I think there has only be one game where it didn't look like we would get anything for the majority of the game, Leicester, and even then we should have been leading! There will be other games like that, but I think we can play to win/score and we will have games when the chances go in. We can adopt a more defensive style if we need to (that might happen sooner rather than later) and pick up points in that manner, drawing more games probably.

We have to turn draws into wins thats for sure. I can't find it acceptable having 5 wins in a year, I am surprised many people can. I'm a straight forward thinking person who thinks in a relegation battle season if you can get somewhere near 10 wins and 10 draws then that is acceptable, so I just can't accept 5 wins in 35 games.

As I said though I like what most of Potter is doing, I just want to be in that happy bubble I spend most of my time in. So lets go on a winning streak and I will be believing Potter is great again.