[Football] A genuine question - what did the UK gain from Indian occupation?

[knocky1]

It's worth reflecting that a significant proportion of Indian politicians (including Nehru) wanted nothing to do with the Commonwealth and only agreed to join when it no longer required acceptance of the monarch as Head of State. To say they "flocked" is over stating it a bit. They saw the benefits in a body of mutual cooperation and interest based off existing ties in trade etc that had been built in the empire, but they explicitly didn't want to retain any sense of that being connected to Britain as a 'mother nation'.

Exactly. Also the US never wanted to join. Ireland quit in 1949. South Africa, who should never have been members with an Apartheid regime left of their own accord before rejoining.

 

[knocky1]

Classy

He certainly was. Partition killed an estimated million people and displaced 15 million. Can't recall how many Canadian's were killed in his WWII Dieppe raid.

 

[Comrade Sam]

You have to be grateful though the British empire wasnt communist.
That shit butchers millions j- no different from Adolph really

Did you know that more people died at the hands of the British Empire than Stalin or Hitler. All nasty really!

 

[Swansman]

No, it's a statement of facts. Remarkably - and uniquely - at the end of an Empire the former countries of the Empire elected to join a wonderful international multicultural organisation vomuntaty and freely, along with the previous rulers of said Empire.

When the countries decided to join the wonderful Commonwealth, was it democratic decisions or decisions made by people who had been installed by the previous emperial regime?

If we take Ghana as an example, the wonderful Commonwealth first appeared to like Nkrumah but when he decided that the natural resources of Ghana should belong to the people of Ghana, the UK and the US armed the NLC and overthrew his government to install a new one that curiously decided that Ghanas natural resources should belong to English and American mining companies. Naturally not a problem to you as you are closet fascist and closet racist, but do you really think the average bloke in Ghana thought "I'd like to belong to the wonderful Commonwealth whose leaders overthrew the government who wanted Ghanian resources to belong to Ghana"?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Did you know that more people died at the hands of the British Empire than Stalin or Hitler. All nasty really!

Power and corruption are nasty. Look at what Putin has been doing in Ukraine. Civilians kidnapped and taken right into Russia.

History shows the faults of human nature. Hopefully we learn from previous mistakes. What I don’t agree with, is being punished for what my predecessors did.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Turkey, iraq and Palestine were never part of the British Empire, so totally irrelevant.

The strange thing about the British Empire which anti-imperialists (such as the USA, who are a bit hypocritical when it comes to identifying with anti-imperialsm!) can't grasp is the fact that when the British Empire voluntarily dissolved, almost every country freed from Empire (including India and Pakistan) signed up to join in the Commonwealth of Nations which Britain instituted as a friendship among nations and the successor to Empire.

No other Empire has ever done that. Yes, there was good and bad about the British Empire - and I understand Empires are vilified today and that many people think it is cool to judge historical events by modern mores, ridiculous though that is - but there was obviously enough good for newly independent nations to voluntarily opt to join the Commonwealth and stay in it.

Difficult one for the haters of their own country's history too argue against, really .............. though doubtless some will try

With you up to that last point where you, yet again, invent a hoard of imaginary enemies 'within'.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

When the countries decided to join the wonderful Commonwealth, was it democratic decisions or decisions made by people who had been installed by the previous emperial regime?

If we take Ghana as an example, the wonderful Commonwealth first appeared to like Nkrumah but when he decided that the natural resources of Ghana should belong to the people of Ghana, the UK and the US armed the NLC and overthrew his government to install a new one that curiously decided that Ghanas natural resources should belong to English and American mining companies. Naturally not a problem to you as you are closet fascist and closet racist, but do you really think the average bloke in Ghana thought "I'd like to belong to the wonderful Commonwealth whose leaders overthrew the government who wanted Ghanian resources to belong to Ghana"?

No.

 

[Comrade Sam]

Power and corruption are nasty. Look at what Putin has been doing in Ukraine. Civilians kidnapped and taken right into Russia.

History shows the faults of human nature. Hopefully we learn from previous mistakes. What I don’t agree with, is being punished for what my predecessors did.

Are you being punished? What did your ancestors do?

 

[GT49er]

With you up to that last point where you, yet again, invent a hoard of imaginary enemies 'within'.

Sadly I didn't have to invent them, my friend. Indeed, some are alive and well on NSC!

 

[Bakero]

So much fragility on this thread. Accepting that historical figures born on the same landmass as you did bad things isn't tantamount to admitting personal guilt. Why the need to offer up defences and caveats?

 

[Comrade Sam]

I'm not sure why people are so upset at the condemnation of the British ruling class. The Empire merely made them stronger whilst most British people were subject to the enclosures, vagrancy laws, the workhouse, child labour, slums, pollution. Just as for the people of the empire, British people have had to fight the same powers to win the vote, the right to strike, the weekend, freedom of speech and movement, decent pay and homes. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of NSC users British ancestors gained little from the Empire and should stop being so touchy when it's questioned

 

[heathgate]

India wasn’t a country prior to British occupation. Are you talking about some rajput or mughal principality?

Exactly, it was feudal conglomeration of disparate 'monarchies'... forever clashing with neighbours, and in fact, largely keen to make economic and political deals with the various western powers ( France, Britain, Portugal) to solidify their personal positions against their neighbours.

These arrangements of course, over a century or so, evolved into a British dominated colony, via the 'Company' ... but once independence and partitioning occurred, the political, economic and physical infrastructure in place, formed the basis for the modern day economic giant.. albeit a giant that sees 80% of its population living in poor conditions if measured using western standards.

**I see I have missed the original question.....apologies**

Our trading power became 2nd to none in the 18th and 19th century, allowing Britain to initiate the industrial revolution. From this point right up to the mid 20th century, we led the world in innovation and invention, the benefits speak for themselves.





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[The Antikythera Mechanism]

 

[faoileán]

Good God, almost every country that gained Independence applied to join the British Commonwealth, and further it is often stated that Britain never lost out on any country gaining its independence. They couldn't quite cut the apron strings - funny that seeing as the British were so awful

Out come those rose tinted spectacles again... For peoples regaining their independence suddenly going it alone was a scary prospect. The Commonwealth offered a small level of reassurance and as the UK is discovering now, going it alone is a lonely next step.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Exactly. Also the US never wanted to join. Ireland quit in 1949. South Africa, who should never have been members with an Apartheid regime left of their own accord before rejoining.

I think a lot of countries have remained in the commonwealth because of the queen. Now she has gone I think more of them will be leaving over the next few years. The Sussexes, on some of their recent trips, did not exactly cover themselves with glory

 

[Brovion]

So much fragility on this thread. Accepting that historical figures born on the same landmass as you did bad things isn't tantamount to admitting personal guilt. Why the need to offer up defences and caveats?

Exactly. However by the same token we, the people of modern Britain, shouldn't have to apologise for the Empire. It wasn't us, so people shouldn't try and lay a guilt trip down on us for what 'historical figures born on the same landmass' did.

 

[Swansman]

Exactly. However by the same token we, the people of modern Britain, shouldn't have to apologise for the Empire. It wasn't us, so people shouldn't try and lay a guilt trip down on us for what 'historical figures born on the same landmass' did.

It continues today, which is something a lot seem to forget. British companies are exploiting poor countries, stealing their natural resources.

 

[cunning fergus]

It continues today, which is something a lot seem to forget. British companies are exploiting poor countries, stealing their natural resources.

Don’t worry about the companies, how about the U.K. state exploiting the limited medical resources of poorer countries to get them into the NHS.

And yet some people celebrate that expolitation like I dare say their forebears did when the found out about Plessey.

Imperialism and colonial attitudes are not dead in this country.

 

[cunning fergus]

You have to be grateful though the British empire wasnt communist.
That shit butchers millions j- no different from Adolph really

Very true, there were regular famines in Ireland (and elsewhere in Europe) due to many factors some of which were beyond the control of those in charge (check the year without a summer in (1816).

The Chinese communists on the other hand, ignored the effects of collectivisation under Stalin and really let rip………

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gre...pread oral reports,even to eating human flesh.

Given their history it’s no surprise they will eat literally anything, animal, mineral or vegetable.

 

[Brovion]

It continues today, which is something a lot seem to forget. British companies are exploiting poor countries, stealing their natural resources.

It's not just British companies though is it? And slavery continues today despite our best efforts to eradicate it. And British companies also exploit British people. There are so many ills in the world, and to repeat, they are not the fault of the ordinary contemporary British people - and historical ones certainly aren't.