[Finance] A Cashless Society.

[RandyWanger]

CBDC are the future, the government is changing from an elected body you put in power to manage public finances to having total control over every aspect of your life.

 

[drew]

company selling card services shockingly finds they are cheaper than cash

I did point that out. However on the other side of the coin was a report calling for government to protect the use of cash, funded by Link!

 

[beorhthelm]

That's not strictly true though as you're just looking at it from the point of view of a bank note. If a business takes payment, whatever form, it will extract from that value the cost of running that business and then it is left with the profit and that is what they have to spend. Rather than looking at it from the point of view of one bank note think of it as a transaction of say £100 (10 x £10 notes). From that he has to pay tax, staff costs, rent, suppliers etc etc. For arguments sake, say 50% of his income goes in expenses. From his point of view he now only has 5x£10 notes to spend.

It's over 40 years since I studied economics but I'm sure there was a measurement for the decreasing value of money as it went through multiple transactions but for the life of me I can't remember what it was.

maybe thinking of velocity which measures increase of money as it goes through multiple transactions? never seen anyone portray a decrease as you just have, the business had £100 which they spent on their costs.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Do you get charged for using your contactless payment?

No. But credit card or even debit card contactless payments are no use if someone wants to give me any money - you would need a smartphone for that. And smartphones cost money.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I hope the resistance to the cashless society will gather momentum, part of society actually needs it to operate and abolishing it brings the Orwellian prophecy of total control ever nearer.

I‘m slightly miffed about the ongoing bank policies of asking where certain cash sums have come from when paying in.

It’s not an isolated bank policy they’ve made up on their own it’s their way of complying with Anti Money Laundering regulations and the legal requirement to understand source of funds and source of wealth of their customers, in order to Identify unusual or suspicious behaviour

More here:

The Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017

These Regulations replace the Money Laundering Regulations 2007 (S.I. 2007/2157) and the Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2007 (S.I. 2007/3298) with updated provisions that implement in part the Fourth Money Laundering Directive 2015/849/EU (“fourth money laundering...

www.legislation.gov.uk

And how industry typically implement it

StackPath

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I had a spare card: Mrs G and I have a joint account for household bills - that was lost at the same time

I was thinking more about a solution to your situation when the UK is cashless i.e. issue people with a spare and keep it at home/seperate from the main card. If you are away from home banks can issue a temporary card instead of the 'wad of cash' you withdrew when you went to your bank.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I use Apple Pay rather than the physical card itself. I can load all my cards on and just select the one I want to use depending on what I'm paying for. I also think (hope) I'm less likely to loose my phone compared to taking a card out of a wallet to use.

I'm cashless apart from paying my barber - mainly because I give him a decent tip and I want him to have that in cash. Other than that it's only if we've run out of milk and I walk down to our local shop where I don't want to be using a card for a couple of squid.

I'm the same. My Apple Pay is loaded with a variety of cards from my UK, German and business accounts and credit cards. I carry physical cards with me as well....the likelihood of me losing both my phone and my cards is extremely low so I should never be complety screwed...touch wood.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I‘m slightly miffed about the ongoing bank policies of asking where certain cash sums have come from when paying in.

Why does it 'miff' you? I can see why there is a need as is detailed above.

 

[drew]

maybe thinking of velocity which measures increase of money as it goes through multiple transactions? never seen anyone portray a decrease as you just have, the business had £100 which they spent on their costs.

I was trying to make the point that, quite badly it seems, that £10 doesn't just stay at £10 just because you have a £10 note in your pocket.

 

[drew]

No. But credit card or even debit card contactless payments are no use if someone wants to give me any money - you would need a smartphone for that. And smartphones cost money.

And if they want to give you money they have to do that in person. Also, you're not limited to smartphones, you can transfer from your computer. It also means someone on other side of the world can transfer money to you with very little effort.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Of course the Government won't be at all interested in upping the amount of VAT collected

 

[dazzer6666]

Pretty much the only time I use cash now are the barbers, our card nights and fishing match entry fees. Don’t even carry any most of the time. Keep my various cards with my phone so don’t use a wallet any more either.

 

[The Clamp]

Visa went down a few years back and it was chaos getting out of Gatwick car park .

That’s humans fault. They should have just lifted the barrier. Problem solved.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No. But credit card or even debit card contactless payments are no use if someone wants to give me any money - you would need a smartphone for that. And smartphones cost money.

There is a system for non-smart phones called UPI 123 or something similar. If this person who wants to give you a fiver and does not have a smart phone they can maybe use this? Or log onto a computer at the next opportunity? I have never set up, or used it, but my UK bank account has some system called Ping where I can send people money via a text message.

 

[Gwylan]

Well in the future, there might not be a bank to get to!

That's happened already; the bank I went to is shutting down this week! I think there's a way to get from an ATM without a card but I've not used it yet. But that would be useless if everything is cashless.

And those people who say loading a card on your phone would solve this: it doesn't, because if you stop your card when it's lost, then the one loaded on your phone is stopped too.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Why does it 'miff' you? I can see why there is a need as is detailed above.

Because I've business banked with both Lloyds and Nat West for nearly 20 years, people have been paying cash for their funerals in that time, surely if Mrs Miggins has 'paid' for her Harold's farewell in readys, why do I suddenly need to confirm this, if it exceeds a specific sum, to bank staff, its clearly stated in the paying in book?

Do they ask the Turkish Barbers who's had which haircut?

 

[Brightonfan1983]

That's not strictly true though as you're just looking at it from the point of view of a bank note. If a business takes payment, whatever form, it will extract from that value the cost of running that business and then it is left with the profit and that is what they have to spend. Rather than looking at it from the point of view of one bank note think of it as a transaction of say £100 (10 x £10 notes). From that he has to pay tax, staff costs, rent, suppliers etc etc. For arguments sake, say 50% of his income goes in expenses. From his point of view he now only has 5x£10 notes to spend.

It's over 40 years since I studied economics but I'm sure there was a measurement for the decreasing value of money as it went through multiple transactions but for the life of me I can't remember what it was.

That's a nice breakdown. I suppose what I was getting at, is that isn't an electronic payment yet another business expense that isn't strictly necessary?

When I dabbled in economics (30 years ago and I remember less than you!) at uni, I watched one of those money programmes that were taking off at the time (Working Lunch, anyone?) and they suggested that offering to pay in cash for a high-ish value item would be jumped at by the shop as they'd avoid the credit card fee. I did that with a suitcase in a department store and got what feels like about £50 off. So either it was a dodgy tax-avoiding store, or a store operating a savvy business model, or a savvier shop assistant who pocketed the whole amount. I guess I'll never know!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Because I've business banked with both Lloyds and Nat West for nearly 20 years, people have been paying cash for their funerals in that time, surely if Mrs Miggins has 'paid' for her Harold's farewell in readys, why do I suddenly need to confirm this, if it exceeds a specific sum, to bank staff, its clearly stated in the paying in book?

Do they ask the Turkish Barbers who's had which haircut?

I presume it's due to potential money laundering?

 

[dsr-burnley]

There is a system for non-smart phones called UPI 123 or something similar. If this person who wants to give you a fiver and does not have a smart phone they can maybe use this? Or log onto a computer at the next opportunity? I have never set up, or used it, but my UK bank account has some system called Ping where I can send people money via a text message.

If my pal is going to the butty shop and I ask him to get me a butty while he;s there, is it easier to pay him with a £5 note or with a UPI123 or logging in on my computer?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

And those people who say loading a card on your phone would solve this: it doesn't, because if you stop your card when it's lost, then the one loaded on your phone is stopped too.

This was not the case for me. I had my wallet lifted a few years ago and I stopped all my cards. I was still able to use the phonecard linked to my bank account as it is a virtual card. This was very handy, and I'd say a big benenfit of cashless.