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A bit of perspective??



Lady Whistledown

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
47,645
OK (deep breath) here goes.

(1) Yes, Saturday wasn't a great performance, but taking the "glass half full" approach, at least we didn't lose. Oldham looked far more capable of scoring than some teams we've seen at Withdean so thank your lucky stars we didn't concede a daft breakaway goal. We won't win every game at Withdean.

(2) Some people seem to think we have a divine right to be amongst the promotion chasers. The last few seasons have seen promotion, promotion, relegation, and people have perhaps forgotten that there are actually a hell of a lot of teams in every division that to finish with neither. We spent plenty of seasons in the past in comfortable/dull mid table and not much to play for, and while it's not the most exciting thing in the world, that's what most teams have to settle for. I want promotion as much as the next person, but I don't think it's our automatic right, and if we did finish, say, 8th, it won't be the absolute end of the world.

To suggest that McGhee should be fired if we don't go up is daft, who's to say Coppell would have taken us up? Fine, if we were threatened by relegation, I'd be more inclined to question McGhee, but we're not (fingers crossed). He took a couple of seasons to get Millwall right, can we not afford to give him the same backing here? A thorough assessment of the squad is long overdue anyway, why not say ok, we'll see what happens re promotion this season, and if it's not to be, at least we can have a complete review of the players, get rid of some of the deadwood from the wage bill and start planning for a real assault next season. If every club sacked their manager now because they weren't likely to get promotion, there'd only be about 8 guys in the whole league with jobs.

(3) Even if you did sack McGhee now (which I think is just stupid), what would the next guy do? There are very few great managers around, and not many clubs lucky enough to have them, so the next incumbent, unless he happened to be an absolute genius at motivation, will still have to work with exactly the same playing staff. Even Wenger or Taggart would struggle to get anything useful out of someone like David Lee.

*sits back and awaits onslaught from "sack him now" brigade.*
 






rool

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2003
6,031
1) McGhee shouldn't be sacked, we desperately need a period of stability.

2) It took Micky Adams about a season and a quarter to assemble 'his team' and from memory it wasn't that great in our first season back at Withdean until the last 14 games. I do believe some were also calling for his head. McGhee should be allowed at least that time.

3) It won't do us any harm to stay where we are during this rebuilding (apart from if the crowds keep falling :lolol: ) and if we have a couple of 'boring' midtable finishes or somewhere around the play offs then that isn't a bad result in my books after all three or four years ago we would have all happily accepted that. I know we have moved on to better things but we have lost the heart of our team (the attacking one anyway) and, I think anyway, that we are in an iffy financial position at present.

4) We may still have an exciting finish to the season yet but if not let's see what is done over the summer with hopefully a YES decision behind us.

and finally

5) what other team. except man u has successful seasons year after year?. Having a crap season is no excuse not to go. For most clubs crap seasons far outweigh the good ones but it makes the good ones feel much better. I actually feel sorry for man u fans as I bet most of them didn't feel like I did when we won the third division championship. You either like football or you don't, warts and all. The club needs the fans to turn up more than ever at the moment.
 


Lady Whistledown

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
47,645
Harty's phone in on SCR saturday evening featured almost without fail, the sack-McGhee doom merchants, and it was incredibly depressing listening to it.

If we were in Chesterfield or Wycombe's position I'd agree, but all I'm saying is give the guy a chance or we'll start to sound like Tottenham fans, thinking we have a divine right to success and whinging constantly as soon as things aren't going perfectly.

Glad to see a few people agree at least...
 


Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
57,322
Back in Sussex
Agree with what you say - give the bloke a chance to build his team and then judge him.

But - I stand by what I said on the McGhee thread - the club needs a spark from somewhere to re-enthuse everyone. I hope 'Yes' to Falmer will be it, but I have my doubts.
 




Yorkie

Sussex born and bred
Jul 5, 2003
32,367
dahn sarf
edna krabappel said:
Harty's phone in on SCR saturday evening featured almost without fail, the sack-McGhee doom merchants, and it was incredibly depressing listening to it.


Glad to see a few people agree at least...

I'm glad you said almost without fail :lolol:

Eternal optimist here
 


CHAPPERS

DISCO SPENG
Jul 5, 2003
45,098
edna krabappel said:
OK (deep breath) here goes.


(2) Some people seem to think we have a divine right to be amongst the promotion chasers. The last few seasons have seen promotion, promotion, relegation, and people have perhaps forgotten that there are actually a hell of a lot of teams in every division that to finish with neither. We spent plenty of seasons in the past in comfortable/dull mid table and not much to play for, and while it's not the most exciting thing in the world, that's what most teams have to settle for. I want promotion as much as the next person, but I don't think it's our automatic right, and if we did finish, say, 8th, it won't be the absolute end of the world.

To suggest that McGhee should be fired if we don't go up is daft, who's to say Coppell would have taken us up? Fine, if we were threatened by relegation, I'd be more inclined to question McGhee, but we're not (fingers crossed). He took a couple of seasons to get Millwall right, can we not afford to give him the same backing here? A thorough assessment of the squad is long overdue anyway, why not say ok, we'll see what happens re promotion this season, and if it's not to be, at least we can have a complete review of the players, get rid of some of the deadwood from the wage bill and start planning for a real assault next season. If every club sacked their manager now because they weren't likely to get promotion, there'd only be about 8 guys in the whole league with jobs.



You'll hear no arguments from me.

Great stuff.

:clap:
 


Hannibal smith

New member
Jul 7, 2003
2,216
Kenilworth
I agree with the key points of what you say (largely that Mcghee shouldn't be sacked and that stability is needed) but I think the point that is missed is not that we have a divine right to finish in the top 2 or that 8th isn't necessarily a bad season (Especially if we get Falmer, it will be a great season) but that recent performances haven't been good enough and the fans expect better - I'm sure Mark Mcghee expects better as well.

We know that the current crop of players can play better but for whatever reason this doesn't appear to be happening and we have been served up with football that lacks imagination and subtlety (unless an 40 yard hoof towards 4ft Leon Knight counts as subtle). Therefore what worries me at the moment is

(a) How come Rehman when he arrived looked like a world beater and by the time he had finished the worst player in our midfield. Surely that reflects badly on our coaching staff?
(b) Why Cullip isn't as commanding as recent seasons?
(c) What has happened to the flowing passing movements seen last season (although I appreciate the loss of key players doesn't help) and why cant we break down mediocre opponents or come from behind?

These are things that can be addressed by the management team through training or man management and need to be put right in order for people to pay good money to sit in the cold and watch. As I've said before it only costs a fiver to watch Lord of the rings - £20 odd to watch the Albion.
 




Dave the OAP

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
46,762
at home
OK

Taking what you say at face value, then you are not wrong and I agree McGee will need time.

My concern is that I have sat through most games this year home and away and am yet to become "excited" save a couple of rants at inept managerial decisions.

I know Falmer is the be and end of all blah blah yawn blah, but as in most of the entertainment industry, the product that is placed before the public must be one of a palatable nature. This season it has patently been not!

What has concerned me the last few games is the lack of "shape" of the team. What is the point of having a pop at McPhee that he wasn't winning balles when the players at the back hoof it up in the general direction of Knight, not McPhee. I thought he was very unlucky to be substituted twice ( swindon and Oldham) when we had not scored a goal. He is the centre forward...if Knight doesn't score then it is left to McPhee. If he goes off then what?

On another tack, it was explained to me that Fatboy's injection of cash was a donation and not actually a do or die thing. In other words " I have some money left over from the weekly shop at Sainsbury's, can you use it?" DK " Yes, you can pay the wages this month if you like" This seems a bit tenuous but seemly genuine.
 


Tooting Gull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
11,033
Agree with Edna about some continuity. Christ knows we've had enough enforced changes and manager searches without inflicting one on ourselves in all but the direst circumstances, which these aren't.

But some of the things said about McGhee by Millwall players/fans as being the reason for his sacking are beginning to ring true. Remember, they were only a couple of points off the play-offs when he was asked to leave, so it wasn't performance.

But he was regularly accused by both fans and his team of playing people stupidly out of position (Knight on Saturday?), of having no charisma or motivational ability, of making the whole place very depressing, and being very unpopular with the backroom staff. To a man and woman, evereyone from the tea lady to the players were delighted to see him go.
 






Kneon Light said:
Excellent post Edna. Couldn't agree more.

yes me 2.

I also think that this division is quite poor. Any team can beat another on their day. QPR and Plymouth seem to be the top 2, but to be honest, QPR haven't impressed me (even when they beat us in the LDV).
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
72,382
Watching ALL TWENTY outfield players drift over to the left hand side of the pitch for a Roberts goal-kick like a flock of sheep at feeding time was so pathetic it was laughable. If only one of the fuckwits had had the presence of mind to hang a right, he'd have had an unchallenged fifty yard clear run on goal. Total garbage.
 


Good sentiments edna and munster, it's easy to expect too much from the team and just build up hopes, and become disappointed.
I don't get to hear the phone-in, but it needs to be tempered with opinions like those.

:clap: :clap:

Let's hope MM eventually does build up from here though.
 




Oct 25, 2003
23,964
Tom Hark said:
Watching ALL TWENTY outfield players drift over to the left hand side of the pitch for a Roberts goal-kick like a flock of sheep at feeding time was so pathetic it was laughable. If only one of the fuckwits had had the presence of mind to hang a right, he'd have had an unchallenged fifty yard clear run on goal. Total garbage.


yeh while this is a bad option in theory, you'll notice that almost all teams do it as, when taking a goal kick from the left, it is quite hard to get it over to the right wing without the other team quickly twigging onto what you were going to do. Also, if, say Gary Hart stayed wide right, i think any sane left-back would notice and just mark him.
 


Obviously Edna deserves to go back to the top. One thing that has struck me about everything written about Saturday's game is how little credit has been given to Oldham. I'n not sure they did come looking just for the point, they passed it well and went forward at every opportunity. The caretakers are doing a good job on that evidence and it wouldn't surprise me if their fortunes picked up in the next few months.
 


Yorkie

Sussex born and bred
Jul 5, 2003
32,367
dahn sarf
London Irish said:
Obviously Edna deserves to go back to the top. One thing that has struck me about everything written about Saturday's game is how little credit has been given to Oldham. I'n not sure they did come looking just for the point, they passed it well and went forward at every opportunity. The caretakers are doing a good job on that evidence and it wouldn't surprise me if their fortunes picked up in the next few months.

Both keepers had a great game.
 


Nov 12, 2003
83
And Let's Not Forget

Amidst the ridiculous amount of gloom and doom I've just read on this thread, don't forget that Oldham beat QPR 2-1 at home first match after Dowie left.

I get very depressed reading NSC sometimes - apart from the ridiculous amount of pointless polls, there do not seem to be the same quality discussions that used to happen not that long ago. And because I've been so busy getting irritated about this thread, I've just boiled my potatoes dry - but at least it didn't set the stupid fire alarm off.
 


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