8 car trains for Falmer?

[Brovion]

Gwylan, I think it's something to do with the fact that there aren't enough signals. The train can't be turning around whilst the next train is on its way to Lewes. The next train would have to wait behind a signal for the whole of the period that the first train was manoevering.

Indeed (thanks for your reply to Nappy Thrower btw, saved me the bother). I was shocked to find out, courtesy of British Bulldog, that there can only be ONE train in either direction between Lewes and Brighton at any one time!

The problem is is that the East Coastway line is little more than a country branch line. Fine for local needs, (non-express trains running every twenty minutes or so) but it can't be turned into the equivalent of the Metropolitan Line (or any urban railway) without massive investment. Even if that could happen before Falmer opens (which it couldn't), could it be justified when it's only really for football use?

 

[Ernest]

Could the rail company not "double end"the trains that are used on match days?thus speeding up the reversing process.

And where are these double enders coming from, it is impossible to staff the regular service at weekends.
Anyway I'm looking forward to the weekends of engineering works when the lines are shut between Brighton and Lewes

 

[British Bulldog]

You know it BB and I know it but it's a waste of time trying to explain to anyone here as they are simply TOO thick to understand

They just DONT have the INTELLIGENCE of us RAILWAYMEN Ernest.

 

[Ernest]

Indeed (thanks for your reply to Nappy Thrower btw, saved me the bother). I was shocked to find out, courtesy of British Bulldog, that there can only be ONE train in either direction between Lewes and Brighton at any one time!

The problem is is that the East Coastway line is little more than a country branch line. Fine for local needs, (non-express trains running every twenty minutes or so) but it can't be turned into the equivalent of the Metropolitan Line (or any urban railway) without massive investment. Even if that could happen before Falmer opens (which it couldn't), could it be justified when it's only really for football use?

Not quite right, once a train leaves Falmer towards Brighton the next train can't leave there until the first train is safely in the platform at Brighton. With the lack of platform space that can create quite a holdup on the viaduct at Brighton as trains wait for platform space there. Only takes one service to be late leaving Brighton and there is a tailback towards Lewes.

 

[The Oldman]

I know LB said above that had Connex stated it 'could' be done, but has any kind of feasibility study been carried out on this yet ?

If not - why not ??

If it has - what are the costs involved ?

SEEDA are footing the bill for the fly-over and junction improvements around the A27/A270 - why isn't a similar funding operation being looked at for improvements to the rail service ?

With the public service cutbacks now underway including the postponement of electrification of West coast line and possible delays to Crossrail would not think there is much chance of rail improvements to cope with a Football stadium.
I was one who originally said I would go by train but am changing my mind to P & R now. I know the club hope that we will all stagger our arrival and exit times but you only have to see the exodous from Withdean 5 minutes before the end of a match to know that many will just want to get away asap. That will be a big challenge for the railway.

 

[SpidersLegs]

Yep.



And the conveniently located "change over points" of which you speak simply don't exist between Lewes and Brighton. To build them would require a complete and very expensive redesign of the signalling system.

No it wouldn't. The wiring is still in place for the old Falmer ground frame which was removed a few years ago. Only the cost of a new set of points would be required.

 

[Brovion]

Not quite right, once a train leaves Falmer towards Brighton the next train can't leave there until the first train is safely in the platform at Brighton. With the lack of platform space that can create quite a holdup on the viaduct at Brighton as trains wait for platform space there. Only takes one service to be late leaving Brighton and there is a tailback towards Lewes.

I stand corrected. Still not ideal though, and as you say what will happen when there's a signal/points failure on the Brighton/Lewes line, or a suicide or some other act miles away from Falmer that still has had the knock-on effect of screwing up the services and staff rosters?

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

And where are these double enders coming from, it is impossible to staff the regular service at weekends.
Anyway I'm looking forward to the weekends of engineering works when the lines are shut between Brighton and Lewes

You could always lend them one of yours

 

[Brovion]

With the public service cutbacks now underway including the postponement of electrification of West coast line and possible delays to Crossrail would not think there is much chance of rail improvements to cope with a Football stadium.
I was one who originally said I would go by train but am changing my mind to P & R now. I know the club hope that we will all stagger our arrival and exit times but you only have to see the exodous from Withdean 5 minutes before the end of a match to know that many will just want to get away asap. That will be a big challenge for the railway.

Just out of interest what is the vehicle capacity of the Park 'n' Ride sites?

 

[Gwylan]

Thanks for the clarification from BB and Ernest. Good explanations for an ignoramus like me.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Secondly you've got a tight schedule of trains running from Lewes to Brighton because of the old 2 aspect signalling system that still opperates on that line, You've got a 9 minute running time on the section between Falmer and Brighton and you can only have one train on that section at a time.

This is the bit that seems most cost-effectively remedied to me - BB, I know that under the current set-up (and that's the important bit) it can't be done and I respect your inside knowledge on the matter. But given how far Brighton station is from Falmer, even allowing for the fact that you need to leave a lot of room between trains for obvious safety reasons, that current signalling set-up that you mention is so obviously something to be tackled. For instance many evenings I see an FCC train waiting immediately behind whichever train has just left Farringdon; they queue up there like trams waiting at a traffic light. No harm done at all.

Just giving lots of reasons why it can't ever be done and that's that is maybe missing the point, pardon the pun.

 

[Norman Potting]

Sorry to be a sad trainspotter but do any experts on this thread know if there would be power supply constraints to running longer trains, I assume most of them on the route are 3/4 car and wondered what the effect of running 8 car units would be?

At weekends there should be a few spare class 170 diesels off the Uckfield line that could probably fit in Falmer - Lewes and Falmer - Brighton shuttles. What about the buses, will B&H be putting on some extra dedicated ones for those of us who live in the sticks and might want to leave the car at home?

Also what about the car park at Lewes if it is to be promoted as a P&R site for those who wish to get the train to the ground? I don't recall it being massive and wonder if it would be able to cope.

Just to say tho' I will get to Falmer somehow, whatever the inconvenience!! Anorak off now.

 

[Joe Gatting's Dad]

Surely all you have to do is to run six coach trains by coupling two three coach trains together. The stock is regularly used on the west coast route. Use platform three at Brighton to shuffle them around.

No one will mind standing for ten minutes.

 

[British Bulldog]

Secondly you've got a tight schedule of trains running from Lewes to Brighton because of the old 2 aspect signalling system that still opperates on that line, You've got a 9 minute running time on the section between Falmer and Brighton and you can only have one train on that section at a time.

This is the bit that seems most cost-effectively remedied to me - BB, I know that under the current set-up (and that's the important bit) it can't be done and I respect your inside knowledge on the matter. But given how far Brighton station is from Falmer, even allowing for the fact that you need to leave a lot of room between trains for obvious safety reasons, that current signalling set-up that you mention is so obviously something to be tackled. For instance many evenings I see an FCC train waiting immediately behind whichever train has just left Farringdon; they queue up there like trams waiting at a traffic light. No harm done at all.

Just giving lots of reasons why it can't ever be done and that's that is maybe missing the point, pardon the pun.

The signalling system could easily be upgraded on that line and the length of sections reduced if Network Rail were willing to invest the money but they're not interested. Up until I got signed off work last year I kept badgering managers about it every time I saw them but I got nowhere, In fact none of them even knew there was a stadium being built at Falmer until I told them. I can only hope that once the stadium is up and running they might see the need for an upgrade and do something about it.

 

[BLOCK F]

Coming from Chichester,I have always been concerned about the 'best' way to get to and from Falmer.Personally,I should like to see a coach from Chi straight to the ground.
No transport expert me,but I can see hassle ahead!

 

[Man of Harveys]

Secondly you've got a tight schedule of trains running from Lewes to Brighton because of the old 2 aspect signalling system that still opperates on that line, You've got a 9 minute running time on the section between Falmer and Brighton and you can only have one train on that section at a time.

The signalling system could easily be upgraded on that line and the length of sections reduced if Network Rail were willing to invest the money but they're not interested. Up until I got signed off work last year I kept badgering managers about it every time I saw them but I got nowhere, In fact none of them even knew there was a stadium being built at Falmer until I told them. I can only hope that once the stadium is up and running they might see the need for an upgrade and do something about it.

11/10 for your efforts in trying but jeez, the management?...what a fine example of the great joined-up thinking about infrastructure planning in this country that is. Bloody typical.

 

[Tomnorthi]

How difficult would it be to extend the platforms by one carriage length, to allow people from all eight carriages to get on or off there?

Would seen pretty simple to do so, nothing obstructing it either way:

 

[Gwylan]

Am I right in thinking that if we'd had this debate at the planning enquiry and it had been picked up by our opponents, this could have been enough to put the kybosh on Falmer? Or would this have been dismissed as inconvenient but nothing serious?

 

[Rookie]

Sure it will be a bit chaotic at the first night game but will get sorted out in time, all new places have a few teething problems. Anyone who has been to the Emirates for a evening game knows about chaos.

 

[willingdon_seagull]

Would it be possible to operate an 8 car train for example from Brighton fast to Falmer and then send it down to Newhaven or Eastbourne empty - keep it there and then bring it back after the match for pick up to Brighton? This way it wouldnt clog up Lewes and without stopping at London Road and Moulsecoomb would be quicker to move out of the way for the stopping services behind it?

Just a thought like - in Newhaven I often see trains in that old station by the Ferry Terminal.