[News] 15 yr school girl stabbed to death Croydon

[Herr Tubthumper]

All I know is that in NYC we had a big problem with knife crime back in the 80’s. The mayor at the time increased the amount of police on the streets significantly to deter criminals and over the following 6 months it went down significantly and has largely stayed down certainly in the main Manhattan borough .

…..whereas shootings….

 

[Live by the sea]

Have you seen how the traditional stopping and searching of young black males works in this country?

And as I said, you are clearly too young to remember swamp 81.

And how the f*** will repeated stopping and searching of law abiding young black males stop some **** machetting his ex GF?

But, nice to see that you think that no amount of inconveniencing of young black males is too much in the quest to end all street crime which is all done by young black males.

Have a read of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_profiling#:~:text=Racial profiling can make targeted,are perceived as a criminal.

I’ve not said this is all down to young black males ! I said the police should use their stats . Inconvenience is better than murder don’t you think ..

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Bit of an unnecessary jibe where you will get likes from people who want to politicize a stabbing. The fact is that Hedge fund managers manage money on behalf of corporations and wealthy individuals. It’s a job and one that most that mention it on here probably don’t understand. Do you know which markets he invested in ? If not then you don’t know what his job involved. All hedge fund managers don’t do the same thing. In any case I’m not sure what it has to do with what happened in Croydon. This thread began badly and has gone downhill from there.

It wasn’t a jibe but following on from the discussion about austerity. Austerity was a policy which completely wrecked the Criminal Justice System, and other public services.

Here’s an article about his work at that time.

London Diary: Rishi Sunak dogged by accusations that he benefited from the 2008 financial crash

Why are the economies of most of the Middle East countries, outside the oil-rich Gulf bubble, struggling? Why is Africa always hovering on the edge of an economic crisis?

www.nationalheraldindia.com

 

[Horses Arse]

Has Starmer or Sadiq blamed the Tory government for the knife crrime murders, I've not heard that.

Some interesting calls on the radio today from black (they revealed that) folk living

 

[Weststander]

A policy that was not embraced around the world by numerous other nations that recovered more quickly than ourselves. It was a policy designed to 'rebalance' UK society in favour of the haves. Were I a tory I would have backed it to the hilt - as a well off tory I'd be fine, while the scroungers would just have to work harder for less, which is what 'we' all want.

Like rationing, kept too long by Labour after the war to their costs, austerity might have cost the tories were it not for Brexit, that awful arse Corbyn, then Covid. Now it has almost been forgotten.

Austerity was widely embraced, almost all economists pushed for it, balancing a financial world where a huge credit bubble burst. Gordon Brown’s 2010 austerity pledges were only slightly less severe than Cameron’s. Germany forced austerity on nations that refused - Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. There were mass riots and marches in European capitals. The global money markets, OECD and vital credit rating agencies in effect demanded that every western country followed a policy of sweeping spending cuts and tax increases. I just checked this in contemporaneous articles eg The Guardian.

Our recovery 2007 to 2020 closely matches the OECD average. Manufacturing powerhouses US and Germany inevitably knock most others for six.

But a personal view, said in hindsight, it went way too far. Sure Start centres shouldn’t have closed, frontline police numbers should not have been cut one jot, benefits shouldn’t have been cut.

 

[ManOfSussex]

This is literally over the road

News coming out of a 15 yr old school girl stabbed to death by her previous boyfriend who is a teenager .

Apparently she told him she didn’t want to see him anymore & he pulled out a machete and killed her .

What sort of ‘ human beings ‘ walk about with machetes on them .

Anyone caught with one should be automatically locked up for 5 years .

I know it’s Croydon, and parts of it are very rough but surely the police can’t allow this to continue .

RIP poor girl .

I WFH, but all this took place literally over the road from my office which I do go into. People at work today could look out the window and see the crime scene. I've walked past it many a time when using the rear access to East Croydon Station. A couple of work colleagues use that bus route to work each day too. A bit real this one I'm afraid.

 

[Flagship]

Bring back hanging.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Bit of an unnecessary jibe where you will get likes from people who want to politicize a stabbing. The fact is that Hedge fund managers manage money on behalf of corporations and wealthy individuals. It’s a job and one that most that mention it on here probably don’t understand. Do you know which markets he invested in ? If not then you don’t know what his job involved. All hedge fund managers don’t do the same thing. In any case I’m not sure what it has to do with what happened in Croydon. This thread began badly and has gone downhill from there.

We can all wring our hands and say how terrible, or there can be some action. Action needs budget, law, strength and leadership, four things that are sadly missing from the current government. Life is political, like it or not.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Bring back hanging.

State sponsored murder with some innocent victims.

 

[trueblue]

Neither the police, nor wider society, do allow this to happen/continue.

Tom Cruise and his colleagues in Minority Report were able to predict crimes were about to take place and hurriedly intervene. Unfortunately, that's not a power that anyone in the real world has just yet.

Read a really interesting article once (can’t remember where, annoyingly) about the success of a scheme in Glasgow that applied epidemiology principles to knife crime. Bear with me. The background being that it spreads like a virus. Kids essentially get ‘infected’ by being enrolled into gangs. Bad things happen and the ‘infection’ takes in more and more people - think how many are affected by each attack, and how that multiplies exponentially when they seek revenge.

The solution, no surprise, was education given by former gang members, being forced to meet bereaved relatives, shocking footage to show the reality of sticking a knife in someone, that type of thing. Add a weapons amnesty and zero tolerance to those that still don’t get the message. Upshot was they had considerable success in breaking that chain of ‘infection’ and steering kids away from knives.

So while it’s true about Minority Report, in a way it is possible to intervene in crimes before they happen.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Austerity was widely embraced, almost all economists pushed for it, balancing a financial world where a huge credit bubble burst. Gordon Brown’s 2010 austerity pledges were only slightly less severe than Cameron’s. Germany forced austerity on nations that refused - Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. There were mass riots and marches in European capitals. The global money markets, OECD and vital credit rating agencies in effect demanded that every western country followed a policy of sweeping spending cuts and tax increases. I just checked this in contemporaneous articles eg The Guardian.

Our recovery 2007 to 2020 closely matches the OECD average. Manufacturing powerhouses US and Germany inevitably knock most others for six.

View attachment 167188

But a personal view, said in hindsight, it went way too far. Sure Start centres shouldn’t have closed, frontline police numbers should not have been cut one jot, benefits shouldn’t have been cut.

Thank you for that. Interesting. But, yes, it went to far (and went on too long?). And it was done with too much solemnity barely disguising the glee.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’ve not said this is all down to young black males ! I said the police should use their stats . Inconvenience is better than murder don’t you think ..

But the 'stats' used to drive stop and search means that the police would spend all their time stopping and searching all young black males. Which is what they did at one time.

Most rapes are done by married men on their wives. So using your stats argument the old bill ought to be bashing down the bedroom door of heterosexual married men, since inconvenience is better than rape don't you think?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

We can all wring our hands and say how terrible, or there can be some action. Action needs budget, law, strength and leadership, four things that are sadly missing from the current government. Life is political, like it or not.

Not all of it. Whenever there is a terririst killing some people pile in to tell us about religion and immigration. Whenever there is a stabbing some people pile in to tell us about how rough the area is and others pile in to tell us about police cuts or Government , Government blah blah blah. What all these incidents actually have in common is a personal story and not one person on this thread knows the personal story behind what happened in Croydon. Instead they are using it as a vehicle to express whatever political opinion they have. Why not just be brave enough to start threads like ‘Muslims plant bombs,’ ‘Poor people are rough and not good enough to exist alongside people in Brighton,’ ‘Government cuts cause 17 year boys to stab 15 year old girls.’ The reason is that people wouldn’t open those threads so there is no audience so instead they wait for an incident that can be taken as vindicating their prejudice and away they go.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Not all of it. Whenever there is a terririst killing some people pile in to tell us about religion and immigration. Whenever there is a stabbing some people pile in to tell us about how rough the area is and others pile in to tell us about police cuts or Government , Government blah blah blah. What all these incidents actually have in common is a personal story and not one person on this thread knows the personal story behind what happened in Croydon. Instead they are using it as a vehicle to express whatever political opinion they have. Why not just be brave enough to start threads like ‘Muslims plant bombs,’ ‘Poor people are rough and not good enough to exist alongside people in Brighton,’ ‘Government cuts cause 17 year boys to stab 15 year old girls.’ The reason is that people wouldn’t open those threads so there is no audience so instead they wait for an incident that can be taken as vindicating their prejudice and away they go.

Absolute nonsense.

If you want to stop young people stabbing other young people, as it seems most on this thread do, then there are approximately four ways of going about it.

Firstly the 'tough on crime' way. More coppers and more on the beat, tougher sentences, stricter stop and search. Plenty of advocates for that on this thread. It does need money invested in new coppers, time to train them and the existing ones to stop raping, beating and shooting people though.

Secondly, there's the societal approach. Invest in more anti-knife education, invest in poor areas and really 'level up' instead of paying lip service to it. Give kids on estates hope beyond joining a drug gang or becoming a rapper. Invest in those who will teach troubled young men some manners and patience. Perhaps make knives and machetes harder to come by, though good luck finding decent butchers, chefs and DIY tools if you do.

Thirdly you can combine some of each of the first two approaches to offer a carrot and stick.

Lastly you can do nothing except, maybe, have the Home Secretary jet off to Washington to make a Rivers of Blood speech to a think tank whilst being an immigrant herself

People in this country are craving one of the first three approaches and getting the fourth. Of course it's political. I think you just don't like your votes and views being challenged by every day events.

 

[Questions]

Have NY city changed their concealed weapons policy yet. There was talk they were going to.,,

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Absolute nonsense.

If you want to stop young people stabbing other young people, as it seems most on this thread do, then there are approximately four ways of going about it.

Firstly the 'tough on crime' way. More coppers and more on the beat, tougher sentences, stricter stop and search. Plenty of advocates for that on this thread. It does need money invested in new coppers, time to train them and the existing ones to stop raping, beating and shooting people though.

Secondly, there's the societal approach. Invest in more anti-knife education, invest in poor areas and really 'level up' instead of paying lip service to it. Give kids on estates hope beyond joining a drug gang or becoming a rapper. Invest in those who will teach troubled young men some manners and patience. Perhaps make knives and machetes harder to come by, though good luck finding decent butchers, chefs and DIY tools if you do.

Thirdly you can combine some of each of the first two approaches to offer a carrot and stick.

Lastly you can do nothing except, maybe, have the Home Secretary jet off to Washington to make a Rivers of Blood speech to a think tank whilst being an immigrant herself

People in this country are craving one of the first three approaches and getting the fourth. Of course it's political. I think you just don't like your votes and views being challenged by every day events.

The everyday event in question was a 17 year old boy stabbing to death a 15 year girl. Just reminding you because you seem to have completely forgotten. Until you know more about what happened you are talking garbage.

 

[Bakero]

Read a really interesting article once (can’t remember where, annoyingly) about the success of a scheme in Glasgow that applied epidemiology principles to knife crime. Bear with me. The background being that it spreads like a virus. Kids essentially get ‘infected’ by being enrolled into gangs. Bad things happen and the ‘infection’ takes in more and more people - think how many are affected by each attack, and how that multiplies exponentially when they seek revenge.

The solution, no surprise, was education given by former gang members, being forced to meet bereaved relatives, shocking footage to show the reality of sticking a knife in someone, that type of thing. Add a weapons amnesty and zero tolerance to those that still don’t get the message. Upshot was they had considerable success in breaking that chain of ‘infection’ and steering kids away from knives.

So while it’s true about Minority Report, in a way it is possible to intervene in crimes before they happen.

Not sure is this is the one you read but there's a summary of the Glasgow approach here:

How Glasgow is beating knife crime

The Scottish city launched a pioneering initiative after being branded murder capital of Europe in 2005

theweek.com

 

[portlock seagull]

Lastly you can do nothing except, maybe, have the Home Secretary jet off to Washington to make a Rivers of Blood speech to a think tank whilst being an immigrant herself

So glad it’s not just me thinking exactly this! The hypocrisy of this vile women is breathtaking. Shouldn’t be so surprised I guess given she’s a Tory home sec.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The everyday event in question was a 17 year old boy stabbing to death a 15 year girl. Just reminding you because you seem to have completely forgotten. Until you know more about what happened you are talking garbage.

So how would you stop this from happening?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The everyday event in question was a 17 year old boy stabbing to death a 15 year girl. Just reminding you because you seem to have completely forgotten. Until you know more about what happened you are talking garbage.

She was going out with him.
She wanted to finish it.
He offered her flowers.
She refused them.
He stabbed her.

Those are facts. A young man who couldn't handle rejection and a young girl lost her life because of his inability to handle real life.