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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,100








dadams2k11

dadams2k11

ID10T Error
Jun 24, 2011
5,024
Brighton
Mellotron said:
To be fair you’re absolutely right, Brexit should be cancelled. I guess all I’m saying is a referendum now WOULD be more informed than the one 3 years ago. Number one Google search in the UK the day AFTER Brexit - “What is the EU?” I personally understand a lot more about the workings of the EU now than I did pre-Brexit.
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This pretty much sums my feelings and thoughts up.
 


Stat Brother

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
Mellotron said:
To be fair you’re absolutely right, Brexit should be cancelled. I guess all I’m saying is a referendum now WOULD be more informed than the one 3 years ago. Number one Google search in the UK the day AFTER Brexit - “What is the EU?” I personally understand a lot more about the workings of the EU now than I did pre-Brexit.
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Tough to argue with.

Sadly it's only as things are slowly being taken away did I fully appreciate what the EU stands for.

TBH I'm amazed by a couple of things:-

The people who's lives were intrinsically linked to the EU who voted leave.

As well as those who seemingly don't see any of these 'little' push backs as anything other than really annoying stuff we weren't told about.

Oh and I don't mean the WUM's on here.
 














M

Mike Small

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2008
2,980
Stat Brother said:
[tweet]1100756543543431168[/tweet]

:lolol:

[tweet]1101516138138214401[/tweet]
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A quick google search tells you all you need to know about this 'mum of 4 leave supporter'. Belgravia resident (wealthiest part of London) and Thatcher worshipper. You couldn't make it up. Project lies.
 










JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
TWOCHOICEStom said:
I've seen this viewpoint a few times and always thought it to be quite strange. I don't believe that Brits are being kept out of work by Romanian cleaners or Polish nursing home workers or Latvian strawberry pickers. We really do need those people.

If anything, I would understand if people objected to the more skilled workers coming over. There's a far stronger argument for those people negatively effecting our economy and the prospects of young people than the former.... IMO like...
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Oh, I expect some have seen their job opportunities curtailed, it would be a strange job market where a vast increase in immigrant labour had no effect on the job prospects of the indigenous population, especially young people in entry-level or low skill jobs. It's also obvious it would have an effect on suppressing wages in some areas. I do agree we need immigrant Labour, but it seems reasonable to me that the numbers should be better controlled and the effects on local communities - services, jobs and wages better managed (easier to do outside the EU).

If areas of Sussex had the same experience as areas of Lincolnshire re levels of EU immigration or Brighton the same experience as places like Boston or Peterborough I doubt you would think my views strange.
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
A1X said:
Funny, I don't remember Theresa May being on my ballot paper the last time we had an election. Or Jeremy Corbyn come to that. In fact, who has voted for Theresa May to become Prime Minister? By my reckoning nobody did so, as Andrea Leadsom pulled out of the election. She didn't even win the only General Election she fought as PM. Yay democracy!

As for the democratic accountability of the EU, it is arguably more democratic than the UK. How do we get rid of the President or Commission? We vote for MEPs who hold an election into it, MEPs elected under proportional representation so are more representative of the people they represent than the UK Parliament is.
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As I said you can vote to change our government, therefore, the Prime minister. We can't elect or remove the Commission or any of its members or one of the many Presidents. But if You really think casting a vote to elect or remove the government (therefore the PM) in the Uk is less democratic than sending Nige and his mates to Strasbourg/Brussels who make naff all difference to anything then Ok.

A1X said:
Good idea. Training a nurse takes around four years, and costs thousands. How do you propose we get them all trained up in four weeks?
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It will obviously take years to transition from over-reliance on non-UK medical personnel but glad you agree this should happen so a tick for leaving the EU as it would never change if we remain in.

A1X said:
We had a veto on joining it. Last I checked we weren't in it, unless I'm wrong on that?
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Avoiding my question the UK having a veto not relevant to my previous point … So the answer was no then, yet another tick for leaving the EU.


A1X said:
I do know CAP thanks, however you haven't answered my question because while CAP might artificially inflate prices it is also tariff free. Are the increases under CAP greater than the 40% tariff on fresh food for a country under WTO rules?
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You know CAP and you know it inflates prices … then why did you ask how EU membership artificially inflates food prices? Be more specific which fresh foods and Which WTO rules? In addition, how is this relevant unless you are saying we will leave with no deal which parliament is set to block.

A1X said:
From your own link;

"One thing to note, though, is the very high level of agreement in the Council in both periods. Put the other way round, the UK voted on the winning side 97.4% of the time in 2004-09 period and 86.7% of the time in the 2009-15 period."

The other article was also interesting, it seems that most of them contain only a small element of EU alignment rather "the laws come from the EU" as is parroted. I was wondering which of the laws listed on pages 42-46 you most objected to? Also which you feel were railroaded through the Commons and not subjected to the required scrutiny and votes which all legislation is subject to, which I assume it must have been given you claim it somehow impinges on our sovereignty?
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Yes, my link showed where the UK was voted down and overruled (13.3 % of the time 2009-15) it was mainly on issues such as budgetary control, foreign affairs and security … not quite bendy bananas low-grade issues you suggested. Just to confirm your previous 7% figure was woefully misleading and inaccurate. Unfortunately, there is often very little scrutiny to laws and regulatory power outsourced to Brussels, it's often just a rubber stamp exercise as the indomitable Mr Rees Mogg has referenced when he and just a few other Brexiteer MP's are the only ones turning up in the house or in committee.

A1X said:
Actually there is a contradiction, you ignored the fact the UK can veto and be excluded from things it doesn't want to be included in when it suited and then pointed out that others can do the same. So either point 3 or this one is true, please pick one.
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The UK having a veto is of no relevance to the creation of the Eurozone and it's calamitous effects on many member states economies, dragging down overall EU economic performance which was the original point I was making. Are you happy for increasingly extreme governments having a veto in many of our affairs? If not what would change your mind .. perhaps the Front National taking power or the AfD entering government?


A1X said:
I wouldn't be happy about it, but that is a risk for the bank to take and a decision it has to make. It is, to be perfectly honest with you, none of my business. Every company you or I have ever dealt with will have a dubious history with someone at some point. What happened in Greece was not good but ultimately Greece was the one who was in the wrong, the EU is not there as a charity. Were it so then the people who use Greece as a tool to bash it with would be moaning about it mollycoddling failure and impinging on every other member recklessly. Not for the first time it seems a Brexiter wants to have their cake and eat it.
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Strong stuff, 'not happy about it' 'not good' 'None of my business'. What level of crushing austerity and suffering inflicted on our fellow European citizens by an organisation that was clearly at fault would raise your level of interest to perhaps mildly perturbed? If The EU had competently enforced it's own Eurozone entry criteria, the club rules, been consistent and fair in enforcement and punishment from day one no one would be mentioning Greece at all.

A1X said:
How has the PM's deal reneged on her red lines or the manifesto? There is not a customs union in her deal, there is an end to free movement and a departure from the single market. The fact that many Brexiters in Government, even as recently as yesterday, flat out refuse to compromise in any way or engage with anything which in any way impinges on their vision speaks so much to their character, not just the Brexit secretaries but the likes of Boris Johnson and others. Sure, some are using it as a means to an end for their own advancement (the aforementioned Johnson doesn't care whether we leave or remain as long as he gets to be PM, for instance, he just has his wagon hitched to whatever train he thinks will get him there) but the fact is every time "Brexit" is written down it immediately disintegrates under any sort of scrutiny.
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Surprised you need to ask that question … I thought all #teameu types read the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/08/not-much-remain-theresa-may-red-lines-brexit-deal

If Brexiteers who stand by their principles, electoral promises, and manifesto commitments also willing to resign are of dubious character … what are remain MP's who seek to ignore the referendum result, renege on electoral promises, manifesto commitments and refuse to resign?
 




Stat Brother

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
pastafarian said:
Is that how much you are spending on stocking up on pot noodles, pampers and mattress protectors?
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At the start of this week you told me to "grow up".
Is this the lofty height I need to attain?
 


Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
23,693
Brighton
BrExit - the countdown to 11PM GMT on Friday 29th of March 2019

Chris Grayling is the very definition of incompetence.

Everything the ***t touches turns to shit.

Watch the ***k ups he does every week and the millions of pounds of tax payer’s money he is wasting due to his limited abilities. So many more toilet bound millions to come one would expect!

But he can not be sacked and will not be sacked.

Because he is a Brexiteer.












He is not on his way.
(Out of the transport department).
 


Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,526
The arse end of Hangleton
Blue3 said:
His personal incompidence has cost us the tax payer billions I just did a quick toting up of his errors and the cost to resolve

Probation service roll out issues cost £3.3,000,000,000 to resolve
Seaborne contract £300,000
Rail strikes,timetables and franchises £600,000,000
Eurotunell £33,000,000

How he manages to stay as a front bench minister is quite incredible and must be made of Teflon what would it take for him to resign or for Mrs May to sack him
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I in no way support Grayling - the guy is a complete idiot - but I think it's a bit unfair to suggest his failings in the probation service cost £33Bn !!!
 


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
15,174
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Hugo Rune said:
Chris Grayling is the very definition of incompetence.

Everything the ***t touches turns to shit.

Watch the ***k ups he does every week and the millions of pounds of tax payer’s money he is wasting due to his limited abilities. So many more toilet bound millions to come one would expect!

But he can not be sacked and will not be sacked.

Because he is a Brexiteer.












He is not on his way.
(Out of the transport department).
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It's not just because he's a Brexiteer, it's also because, other than being useless and incompetent, he doesn't cause May any grief in terms of his Brexit stance - i.e. he's not threatening to resign because of no deal or because a Little England red line is being crossed in her deal etc.

He's just a very useful idiot, in every sense of the phrase as well as a May loyalist.
 




ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
15,174
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Westdene Seagull said:
I in no way support Grayling - the guy is a complete idiot - but I think it's a bit unfair to suggest his failings in the probation service cost £33Bn !!!
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I agree, but you can't put a true figure on the societal cost of crime though and the number of re-offences per offender has increased by 22% on his watch - that really is quite something - to make the probation service even more useless than it already was.
 




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