[Politics] Brexit

pb21 · Oct 17, 2018

Why on earth is Foxy suggesting an extension to the transition period in order to conclude the easiest deal in the history of mankind, before we have even started?!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...-make-free-trade-deal-says-liam-fox-xpspqllv8

melias shoes · Oct 17, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
And let’s not forget, this Tory government which has made such a total and utter mess of negotiations with its own party and the EU also expect people to believe they can negotiate good deals with the rest of the world. Are people that dim?

Yeah corbyn and co would be amazing. Wouldn't they?

Simster · Oct 17, 2018

melias shoes said:
Yeah corbyn and co would be amazing. Wouldn't they?

No idea. But what we do know is that they couldn't do any worse.

WATFORD zero · Oct 17, 2018

melias shoes said:
Yeah corbyn and co would be amazing. Wouldn't they?

So which part of your 'no deal' Brexit by 29th March 2019 did you think was ridiculous ?

The NI/Ireland Border
The New customs posts
The new Lorry Parks at all ports
The negotiation of our new schedules and quotas with the WTO
The design, building and testing of the new IT systems to run the WTO tariffs and rules
The recruitment and training of the new staff to run the new systems/rules etc

It's just that the way you ran off last time I asked may have given the impression that you had no idea what you were talking about, and I'm sure that's not the case.

*edit* Oh, you seem to have run off again 5 mins after I posted this. Obviously off to formulate an answer :lolol:

The Clamp · Oct 17, 2018

Simster said:
Christ on a bike, you're beyond help. Well over half of our exports are to the EU which currently attract no tariffs whatsoever:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_United_Kingdom

The trade-off for our exports being ultra-competitive for 55% of our current export market is that we can't unilaterally decide to make deals elsewhere. Note, nobody is stopping us actually trading with other countries, it's just that we can't make our own trade deals.

And you're moaning that this isn't a reasonable trade-off? Christ. I think there are valid reasons for leaving the EU (a lack of democracy and accountability, for example) but this one is an absolute crock of shit and reeks of British arrogance.

You thinking I’m a nob aside, great post.

Mellotron · Oct 17, 2018

melias shoes said:
Yeah corbyn and co would be amazing. Wouldn't they?

It would be scientifically impossible for them to do worse.

Mtoto · Oct 17, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
I wonder what business would join a club that prevented it from seeking and doing deals with customers who weren't also a member of the club ?

It prevents us from "seeking and doing" deals that would *inevitably* be on significantly poorer terms than those negotiated by the "club" on behalf of all its members (and which, as it happens, still tend to favour the bigger members of the "club", like the UK). A deal negotiated by the EU has the combined heft of the world's biggest trading bloc behind it. Thus our trade with 56 countries from within the EU is on better terms than would be available to a country roughly 10-15pc of its overall size.

I think that if there were indeed a "club" for middling-sized businesses which allowed them to trade globally on the same terms as multi-nationals, middling-sized businesses would be queuing up to join.

WATFORD zero · Oct 17, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
I wonder what business would join a club that prevented it from seeking and doing deals with customers who weren't also a member of the club ?

I remember having quite interesting discussions with you about Brexit until recently, but I'm afraid this is quite a demeaning place you've ended up.

From pages of complete whataboutism to the point where you said that you wanted 'no deal' but you had no idea of what the economic impact would be 'as I'm not an economist' it's been months since we've seen a sensible post from you.

It doesn't exactly put you in a strong position for sitting sniping from the sidelines which is sadly what you've been reduced to.

Mellotron · Oct 17, 2018

Mtoto said:
It prevents us from "seeking and doing" deals that would *inevitably* be on significantly poorer terms than those negotiated by the "club" on behalf of all its members (and which, as it happens, still tend to favour the bigger members of the "club", like the UK). A deal negotiated by the EU has the combined heft of the world's biggest trading bloc behind it. Thus our trade with 56 countries from within the EU is on better terms than would be available to a country roughly 10-15pc of its overall size.

I think that if there were indeed a "club" for middling-sized businesses which allowed them to trade globally on the same terms as multi-nationals, middling-sized businesses would be queuing up to join.

I'm so confused - this is so OBVIOUSLY logical - anyone who has any absolutely basic understanding of how business works can grasp this.

How anyone can look at the whole situation for more than about 5 minutes and not conclude "well leaving the EU would be a ****ing monumentally stupid thing to do".

CHAPPERS · Oct 17, 2018

Mellotron said:
How anyone can look at the whole situation for more than about 5 minutes and not conclude "well leaving the EU would be a ****ing monumentally stupid thing to do".

Unless you can make money from it personally.

hans kraay fan club · Oct 17, 2018

Mtoto said:
It prevents us from "seeking and doing" deals that would *inevitably* be on significantly poorer terms than those negotiated by the "club" on behalf of all its members (and which, as it happens, still tend to favour the bigger members of the "club", like the UK). A deal negotiated by the EU has the combined heft of the world's biggest trading bloc behind it. Thus our trade with 56 countries from within the EU is on better terms than would be available to a country roughly 10-15pc of its overall size.

I think that if there were indeed a "club" for middling-sized businesses which allowed them to trade globally on the same terms as multi-nationals, middling-sized businesses would be queuing up to join.

This is a good analogy.

Let's apply it to grocery stores.

Sainsbury's sells a lot of baked beans. They have huge purchasing power, when sourcing their tins of beans from the supplier. Thus they are able to sell them to customers at a competitive price.

Independent corner shops, each selling a dozen tins of beans a week do not. Some of those independent retailers therefore operate under flags like Nisa, Londis, Costcutter - grouping together to use their collective purchasing power, when sourcing products (and logistics), to remain at least vaguely competitive.

The swivel-eyed amongst us, somehow believe we can be a completely independent corner shop, outside of any group, yet sell our £2 tins of beans to customers all over the world.

It's really simple economics, and anyone refusing to grasp it, probably doesn't want to.

Simster · Oct 17, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
I remember having quite interesting discussions with you about Brexit until recently, but I'm afraid this is quite a demeaning place you've ended up.

From pages of complete whataboutism to the point where you said that you wanted 'no deal' but you had no idea of what the economic impact would be 'as I'm not an economist' it's been months since we've seen a sensible post from you.

It doesn't exactly put you in a strong position for sitting sniping from the sidelines which is sadly what you've been reduced to.

His position appears to have changed from constructively arguing the merits of his own position to simply coming on here to argue with plooks (someone he regards as an idiot) and ignoring pretty much every other valid point made by remainers.
[MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION], do yourself a favour and ignore the remain simpletons and actually engage with remainers who are either making valid points or taking issue with the sort of nonsense you've just come up with. In all honesty, I'd actually like to hear some grounds on which to be positive for Brexit, because there doesn't appear to be much on that front.

hans kraay fan club · Oct 17, 2018

CHAPPERS said:
Unless you can make money from it personally.

Well that is a plausible explanation for why the Rees-Mogg's of this world want to plough ahead. It doesn't begin to explain why millions of blue-collar voters around the country remain set on self-harm.

It seems to be mainly pride, but surely nobody could be that daft.

Mellotron · Oct 17, 2018

CHAPPERS said:
Unless you can make money from it personally.

Oh absolutely. I meant the man on the street, the punter, so to speak.

CHAPPERS · Oct 17, 2018

Well, the electorate were lied to.

hans kraay fan club · Oct 17, 2018

CHAPPERS said:
Well, the electorate were lied to.

Again, that explains why people may have voted Leave at the time. Not why, in the face of overwhelming evidence that it was a terrible idea, so many refuse to admit they got it wrong.

Two Professors · Oct 17, 2018

hans kraay fan club said:
Again, that explains why people may have voted Leave at the time. Not why, in the face of overwhelming evidence that it was a terrible idea, so many refuse to admit they got it wrong.

Evidence provided by people who think Sainsbury's prices are competitive? :lolol:

Two Professors · Oct 17, 2018

The Clamp said:
You thinking I’m a nob aside, great post.

Well,he had to get something right,once in a while.

melias shoes · Oct 17, 2018

Mellotron said:
It would be scientifically impossible for them to do worse.

You think?

melias shoes · Oct 17, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
So which part of your 'no deal' Brexit by 29th March 2019 did you think was ridiculous ?

The NI/Ireland Border
The New customs posts
The new Lorry Parks at all ports
The negotiation of our new schedules and quotas with the WTO
The design, building and testing of the new IT systems to run the WTO tariffs and rules
The recruitment and training of the new staff to run the new systems/rules etc

It's just that the way you ran off last time I asked may have given the impression that you had no idea what you were talking about, and I'm sure that's not the case.

*edit* Oh, you seem to have run off again 5 mins after I posted this. Obviously off to formulate an answer

No I have to work.

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