attila
1997 Club
Interesting it was too. Mark (Ian Baird's Fist) was there as well. Previous to our meeting he'd been up lobbying Parliament - the most important aspect of the campaign of course, since for anything to happen changes have to be made in legislation.
Arguments against were the obvious ones, top of the list from both PB and MP seemed to me to be the 'identifiable individual in identifiable seat' line
and the allied 'more potential trouble in standing area' one. MP did actually say something along the lines of 'it's a sad fact that the majority has to suffer because of the actions of a minority'
I did of course point out that town centres aren't shut down on Friday and Saturday night because a few people cause trouble, the troublemakers are dealt with, that safe standing
works fine in Germany with full support from the German FA (and in most other European countries) and that - as I'm sure you know - thirteen English clubs are now backing the idea, with Aston Villa leading the way in the PL.
We've been through the debate on here, I think everyone knows where they stand (or sit) now, the same debate happened last night with the club so no need to go much further on the arguments back and forth.
One interesting variation was that Paul Barber said 'it's people who make an atmosphere, regardless of whether they are standing or sitting' and when I mentioned the colour and noise in Germany and elsewhere 'you can't compare it, it's a different culture' (not to me it's not, it's a part of fan culture, regardless of where you live..but there you go)
Very friendly meeting, the channels are still well and truly open, respect for us and the part we played in what we've got now is absolutely still there, PB seems a nice bloke who can handle being energetically argued with
Conclusion as I see it is this:
- Club NOT prepared to back it in principle, but not opposed to other clubs backing it in principle. Everything being discussed as per the situation now, nothing dismissed out of hand, if/when the situation changes and other clubs start implementing it then it's a different discussion and that is accepted. (We are obviously in a pretty unique position in this debate having just nearly completed a beautiful state of the art stadium, it's a weird time to start talking about alterations...)
- Incidentally NO increased revenue through increased North Stand capacity since loads of other factors including size and number of exits, number of toilets and various other safety issues mean accomodation would remain the same as a standing area (hence decreased prices would mean lower revenue)
I brought up the subject of the ticket exchange as well. Reasons are:
- maximising revenue - ie until we are completely sold out the club should be selling tickets not individual fans (I can see their argument, not sure it's entirely fair but it's a valid one)
- that 'identifiable individual in identifiable seat' business again
I did mention the whole issue of ticket prices, the fact that some people, including some who played a big part in the battle for our club, simply can't afford to go as much as they would like, and how that squared with 'inclusivity'. Outside of the staggered payments provision, to be honest, there didn't seem to be much interest in addressing that. But the ridiculously high ticket prices here affect everyone, not just us, I guess....
All in all a worthwhile couple of hours, shame the youth team got tonked, that Stoke No 9 looked useful
Arguments against were the obvious ones, top of the list from both PB and MP seemed to me to be the 'identifiable individual in identifiable seat' line
and the allied 'more potential trouble in standing area' one. MP did actually say something along the lines of 'it's a sad fact that the majority has to suffer because of the actions of a minority'
I did of course point out that town centres aren't shut down on Friday and Saturday night because a few people cause trouble, the troublemakers are dealt with, that safe standing
works fine in Germany with full support from the German FA (and in most other European countries) and that - as I'm sure you know - thirteen English clubs are now backing the idea, with Aston Villa leading the way in the PL.
We've been through the debate on here, I think everyone knows where they stand (or sit) now, the same debate happened last night with the club so no need to go much further on the arguments back and forth.
One interesting variation was that Paul Barber said 'it's people who make an atmosphere, regardless of whether they are standing or sitting' and when I mentioned the colour and noise in Germany and elsewhere 'you can't compare it, it's a different culture' (not to me it's not, it's a part of fan culture, regardless of where you live..but there you go)
Very friendly meeting, the channels are still well and truly open, respect for us and the part we played in what we've got now is absolutely still there, PB seems a nice bloke who can handle being energetically argued with
Conclusion as I see it is this:
- Club NOT prepared to back it in principle, but not opposed to other clubs backing it in principle. Everything being discussed as per the situation now, nothing dismissed out of hand, if/when the situation changes and other clubs start implementing it then it's a different discussion and that is accepted. (We are obviously in a pretty unique position in this debate having just nearly completed a beautiful state of the art stadium, it's a weird time to start talking about alterations...)
- Incidentally NO increased revenue through increased North Stand capacity since loads of other factors including size and number of exits, number of toilets and various other safety issues mean accomodation would remain the same as a standing area (hence decreased prices would mean lower revenue)
I brought up the subject of the ticket exchange as well. Reasons are:
- maximising revenue - ie until we are completely sold out the club should be selling tickets not individual fans (I can see their argument, not sure it's entirely fair but it's a valid one)
- that 'identifiable individual in identifiable seat' business again
I did mention the whole issue of ticket prices, the fact that some people, including some who played a big part in the battle for our club, simply can't afford to go as much as they would like, and how that squared with 'inclusivity'. Outside of the staggered payments provision, to be honest, there didn't seem to be much interest in addressing that. But the ridiculously high ticket prices here affect everyone, not just us, I guess....
All in all a worthwhile couple of hours, shame the youth team got tonked, that Stoke No 9 looked useful
