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[Politics] TV's Alexander Armstrong Vs VAT on private schooling



ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
7,288
Just far enough away from LDC
Are people who send their kids to a private school basically paying twice for their kids education as they are not using the state system? Genuine question
Nope. They're paying once for the opportunity to have their child educated at a state school (plus all the infrastructure for training teachers via university placements and newly qualified teacher (nqt) programmes and then choosing to pay more to go somewhere else.

Same as private medicine in so so many ways
 






Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
58,728
Faversham
As I pressed ”post” I smiled to myself and thought “I know who is probably going to come back with a sarcastic response” as you do on any subject where someone disagrees with you. Think about changing your MO Harry, it has become VERY predictable :wink:
Always happy to brighten up your day, old fruit :wink:

(albeit your repeatedly playing the man instead of the ball is tiresome <sigh>)
 




Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
15,803
Cumbria
I'm not completely excusing the guy, but this article adds *a bit* of context. It's also difficult how the "extremely poor" bit was delivered or how serious he was being. Again, not excusing him, like...


Mind you, anyone who uses the word 'vituperative' strikes me as the sort of person who has probably got a few spare quid here and there.
Don't confuse education and reading with wealth.
Vituperation is one of my hobbies.
In my case my interest stems from my education rather than my *wealth*.
I suspect it may be the other way round for our TV man.
Yes - quite.

I actually used vituperative in a letter not long ago to someone who was basically denigrating a local resident in parish council meetings / minutes. I effectively told them that I was disappointed, and frankly not interested in their vituperative comments and outbursts about her. Especially as she was actually correct in what she was saying.

I don't have many quids to spare I'm afraid.
 




highflyer

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2016
2,674
Are people who send their kids to a private school basically paying twice for their kids education as they are not using the state system? Genuine question
No. Its not all about you. Or any other individual. Like it or not a country is a collective. Without the success of the collective no individual can be successful (even the utterly delusional Ayn Rand realised you'd need some kind of collective security). When you are taxed it is the 'price' you pay to live in a successful, stable, well run, country. This includes ensuring that there is a well educated and healthy workforce as well as the infrastructure, reglations and security within which enterprise can flourish.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,756
The arse end of Hangleton
I'm very sorry, but Private schools not being able to get benefits off the taxpayer by claiming they are charities anymore is a bit like £3m+ farms avoiding IHT (never mind, only half the rate every other family run business has to pay over £1m at twice the rate) and getting upset at not being able to claim their benefits.


oh-dear-how-sad.gif


Maybe a new series of Benefit street ???
You're not even comparing apples with pears - rather apples with shoes. Paying private school fees is a choice - one many people could never afford - and from my experience many of the parents are completely up their own arse. If you don't like the VAT being added (and after all it is actually a service which should attract VAT) then just don't use a private school.

Forcing families to sell off either part of their farm - or indeed all of it to probably a farming corporation - is damaging the UK food supply chain and will mean more imports. The price of farm land, which IHT is calculated on, is a fantasy and completely unrealistic. Farmers work for far less money than those of us that work in offices - I'm sure in the last 20 years you would never worked for £30k or less. If you want good fresh food then farms need to continue to exist - unless of course you're happy to eat Trumps hormone injected beef or chlorinated chicken or even salads washed in bleach ?
 






Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
15,803
Cumbria
You're not even comparing apples with pears - rather apples with shoes. Paying private school fees is a choice - one many people could never afford - and from my experience many of the parents are completely up their own arse. If you don't like the VAT being added (and after all it is actually a service which should attract VAT) then just don't use a private school.

Forcing families to sell off either part of their farm - or indeed all of it to probably a farming corporation - is damaging the UK food supply chain and will mean more imports. The price of farm land, which IHT is calculated on, is a fantasy and completely unrealistic. Farmers work for far less money than those of us that work in offices - I'm sure in the last 20 years you would never worked for £30k or less. If you want good fresh food then farms need to continue to exist - unless of course you're happy to eat Trumps hormone injected beef or chlorinated chicken or even salads washed in bleach ?
?? Are you really serious about this?

I suspect that there are quite a few on here that earn £30k or less now - let alone 'in the last 20 years'. I earn over £30k now - but only relatively recently, and I'm retiring in a few years.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
You're not even comparing apples with pears - rather apples with shoes. Paying private school fees is a choice - one many people could never afford - and from my experience many of the parents are completely up their own arse. If you don't like the VAT being added (and after all it is actually a service which should attract VAT) then just don't use a private school.

Forcing families to sell off either part of their farm - or indeed all of it to probably a farming corporation - is damaging the UK food supply chain and will mean more imports. The price of farm land, which IHT is calculated on, is a fantasy and completely unrealistic. Farmers work for far less money than those of us that work in offices - I'm sure in the last 20 years you would never worked for £30k or less. If you want good fresh food then farms need to continue to exist - unless of course you're happy to eat Trumps hormone injected beef or chlorinated chicken or even salads washed in bleach ?
Only 5% of all farmers will pay any IHT.
This is a tax that Margaret Thatcher removed in 1984, so before that rich farmers paid it. It has simply been restored.

As for your second paragraph, it's only in the last five years my husband has earned over £30K, and I never did before retirement.
 


Skaville

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2004
10,330
Queens Park
My take. He was there to give an interview about his book, which he clearly spoke about at length as the first half of the interview is about it. The journo must have slipped in a question about his kids and it’s been given a sensationalist headline to suit the Torygraph’s agenda.

I have little sympathy with his viewpoint, but suspect he’s been thrown under the bus.
 




beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,283
Universities are part of the state system (with some exceptions, such as Buckingham).
There would be as much logic to putting VAT on university fees as there would be putting VAT on prescription charges,
or council tax.
the logic would be education is no longer seen as VAT exempt. it's not about being part of the state or not. now the rules on exemption are changed in one area, i wouldnt be surprised it spread to other areas in time.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
58,728
Faversham
Actually that’s not true. A lot of private schools worked hard to make the 20% a tapered increase that is phased over several years. For example, putting fees up 5% this first year of VAT, rather than the full 20%. Only an exceptional few have implemented the 20% in full.
So why are people like this television arse still whining and grizzling if most of the trauma has been cushioned?
Is he, perchance, taking offense on behalf of others?
I am sure that Alfredmizen once told us that this is the worst of all the woke lefty characteristics :shrug:
 


Eeyore

Munching grass in Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
27,618
Pays your money, takes your choice. Both my kids went to private schools. We were not rich, lived in a small flat, drove knackered old cars, had about three cheap bargain holidays abroad in total whilst we were paying school fees and had pretty well no luxuries. Nearly everything we bought was second hand. Do I feel guilty, do I f***!

I MUST be a total cock though :rolleyes:

and no I don’t agree with VAT being charged on private school fees. Definitely sailing this ship alone on here.
As I made clear, I don't condemn anyone for making that decision when their kids are at the heart of it.

But having known so many people who have gone through the state system and achieved equally as much, including Oxbridge, I find it unfathomable that such a sacrifice is made.

So this is nothing personal against you. A bit like in the 80s when the government allowed people to buy their council houses. I don't blame folk for taking advantage at such a knock down rate. But they weren't replaced and now we have a housing crisis. Anyway, that's another debate but similar point on life choices.
 




The Clown of Pevensey Bay

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
4,364
Suburbia
Regardless of the arguments about private education I think the Tel sub-editors have stitched him up a bit here. The headline doesn’t match the quote.

If you read the quote he’s asked about VAT on private schools and says

“I’m feeling really, really angry about that, and extremely poor,”

It’s not the same thing as him setting out by claiming to be poor. He is making a clumsy joke about feeling poorer.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
58,728
Faversham
the logic would be education is no longer seen as VAT exempt. it's not about being part of the state or not. now the rules on exemption are changed in one area, i wouldnt be surprised it spread to other areas in time.
Not following you here.
Are you suggesting that state schools should be charged VAT?
State schools already pay VAT on purchases but can claim back VAT spent on things for educational purposes.
They obviously don't charge VAT on fees because (you can guess the rest).
I am charged VAT on my research costs but I can claim some of it back.
However I cannot see VAT being added to prescription charges and the council tax,
precisely because the transactions are between the individual and the state (or one of its proxies).
I do agree that rules on VAT need to be simplified.
VAT is a means of raising money but also a means of manipulating markets (e.g. foreign goods) and social engineering (tampon tax etc.).
It does seem to be a bit of a curate's egg.
 


Wozza

Custom title
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
24,839
Minteh Wonderland
“I’m feeling really, really angry about that, and extremely poor,”

It’s not the same thing as him setting out by claiming to be poor. He is making a clumsy joke about feeling poorer.

Still, he has no right to be 'angry'. And most of us don't care if it's cost him a small percentage of his salary.
 






Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,756
The arse end of Hangleton
?? Are you really serious about this?

I suspect that there are quite a few on here that earn £30k or less now - let alone 'in the last 20 years'. I earn over £30k now - but only relatively recently, and I'm retiring in a few years.
It was a poke at Watford ZERO - not those that earn less than that. He's bragged about all his investments that he's now had to move out of the UK due to Brexit.

Equally, farmers work over 12 hours a day, seven days a week, and in all weathers - and still get screwed by the supermarkets. Slightly different to working in an office on the same salary where it's warm, dry, safe and doing an 8 hour shift. I say that as an office worker.
 


METALMICKY

Well-known member
Jan 30, 2004
7,234
:ffsparr: I'm not completely excusing the guy, but this article adds *a bit* of context. It's also difficult how the "extremely poor" bit was delivered or how serious he was being. Again, not excusing him, like...


Mind you, anyone who uses the word 'vituperative' strikes me as the sort of person who has probably got a few spare quid here and there.
Yes but don't forget if he's only clearing £100k per year he's virtually on the bread line according to some on NSC!
 


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