GoldstoneVintage
Well-known member
JPvH seems to be deployed in quite an advanced CM role when we are attacking. In fact, there is a lot more positional flexibility in general (from what I can make out).
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[Albion] Fabian Hürzeler - A fab thread on our manager and his tactics
- Thread starter singing4seagulls
- Start date
Thank goodness! - and about time! Not to be done all the time, of course, but when the opposition press is working dangerously, yep, pass the ball over or through them. Think you have a point about Niedzkowski too.
Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 7,583
Make your mind up.
Noticeable yesterday towards the end. Joao Pedro was completely and utterly gassed, having gone down a few times with cramp, way before the end, but somehow summoned up enough energy to get the move started that led to the winning goal - which was in part aided by some very lazy Newcastle tracking back and defending.
- May 8, 2018
- 11,335
Nice try, there’s absolutely no chance senior pro’s in the squad would go for this
MikeHimself
Active member
- Nov 17, 2024
- 53
Its often mentioned on NSC that he uses subs too little or worse too late, I believe he's made the most subs changes to date of any manager but stand to be corrected, As for timing of the subs Ferdi was subbed off at half time against Spurs when we were 2-0 down and we went on to win 3-2 so he's not afraid to make tough substitutions. Subs for Man City changed the game including O'Riley first game in the PL . However none of this cuts any mustard with some of the NSC experts who've never warmed to him and wanted shot of him at every opportunity. The comments on the Fab Out thread were mainly full of schoolboy spite and that quasi bullying that often gets passed off as opinion when childish spleen is more accurate. That's just my opinion of course, but its sad when we have a manager extolling our players to be the best version of themselves and I think genuinely has a rapport now that was always going to take time, familiarity and of course a good dose of adversity to bring out the best in themselves. There will be other catastrophies to come but the foundations are sound.
- May 8, 2018
- 11,335
Very much looking forward to FAB 2.0 facing Fulham at the weekend, I am a lot more confident based on what I have seen with our Semi Hoof antics
singing4seagulls
Well-known member
- Apr 2, 2017
- 156
- Thread starter
- #28
Yeah, I think that's quite astute.
I've been pretty pleased with his subs generally, but it's useful to see some examples written down.
Not sure if it's been the most subs of any manager, but three things seem true to me:
- We are playing much less of a passing game, a lot more dribbling, sprinting and counter attacking at pace
- We are far more aggressive in the press and running a lot more - Fab constantly says that he's judging the team on if they run more than the opponents.
- We have a bigger squad and stronger bench than ever before.
Add on a strong bench of players needing minutes vs sat on a bench and makes total sense we'd be doing lots of subs each game
- Jun 20, 2021
- 4,207
That can't be right, he's 32, and before this season I am sure someone appointed a 31 year old as their manager.
Maybe the 31 year old got hounded out by the fans.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Oh no you don't. I do.
- Jun 20, 2021
- 4,207
It was noticeable how Webster was trying to hit the floated ball up the left at every opportunity yesterday.
I think Dunk can and has played some lovely long balls, but Webster, perhaps learning from the mistakes he used to make i.e. getting caught in possession or under hitting a short pass, was quite keen to play the longer balls, possibly because he is more confident on his left foot than Dunk.
I noticed yesterday several times Webster saw that Pervis was marked so he hit it up the line to Mitoma or Pedro to chase.
In a similar situation Dunk would have turned back inside and recycled to Bart or JPVH.
Personally I prefer Webster's approach.
I think Dunk can and has played some lovely long balls, but Webster, perhaps learning from the mistakes he used to make i.e. getting caught in possession or under hitting a short pass, was quite keen to play the longer balls, possibly because he is more confident on his left foot than Dunk.
I noticed yesterday several times Webster saw that Pervis was marked so he hit it up the line to Mitoma or Pedro to chase.
In a similar situation Dunk would have turned back inside and recycled to Bart or JPVH.
Personally I prefer Webster's approach.
Mancgull
Well-known member
Two things I noticed from the Gods yesterday.
1. Webster took the goal kicks and played a short pass to Bart who then had space to play out. More often than not the Newcastle press wasn’t effective and Bart played a relatively easy pass to an advancing JPVH. ( details but not seen that before)
2. Smug Eddie ‘complained’ that we played a physical game. Not sure he meant we kicked them but rather we ran a lot and therefore meant that they had to also run a lot which they probably didn’t want to for 120 minutes, a fortnight before they play a Final at Wembley.
Good tactics/ mindset from us. Our desire to run wasn’t quite matched by them.
I’ve noticed that part of our plan now is to become more ‘physical’ in terms of pressing and running and that we use this, as well as technical skills to force an advantage whereas under De Zerbi we were a more possession based team.
1. Webster took the goal kicks and played a short pass to Bart who then had space to play out. More often than not the Newcastle press wasn’t effective and Bart played a relatively easy pass to an advancing JPVH. ( details but not seen that before)
2. Smug Eddie ‘complained’ that we played a physical game. Not sure he meant we kicked them but rather we ran a lot and therefore meant that they had to also run a lot which they probably didn’t want to for 120 minutes, a fortnight before they play a Final at Wembley.
Good tactics/ mindset from us. Our desire to run wasn’t quite matched by them.
I’ve noticed that part of our plan now is to become more ‘physical’ in terms of pressing and running and that we use this, as well as technical skills to force an advantage whereas under De Zerbi we were a more possession based team.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Can't recall who the Newcastle players were that didn't track back, but:
CBs and GK aside, we had two players that played 120 minutes higher up the pitch. Jack and Joao Pedro. Joao Pedro was shot before extra time begun. Forwards tend to put in the most intensive shift. Not sure Jack has put in (m)any 90 minute performances of late but, in keeping with the game intelligence he displays constantly, he seemed to conserve a fair bit of energy.
This is a long-winded way of saying that some of Newcastle's players were also shot and that might explain their lack of tracking back -- which might not have been due to laziness.
It was more a post in response to a comment about squad mentality and Joao in particular
Mancgull
Well-known member
Maybe because they didn’t want to pick up an injury that would keep them out of the Carabo final in a fortnight.
Gordon had another plan!
- Sep 3, 2010
- 6,299
Prior to Forest I felt we had 3 fundamental issues
- Players were holding onto the ball too long and trying but failing to win games on their own (Pedro worst culprit). @Stato did an excellent analysis on that. We were dribbling too much, not passing enough and I felt some players stopped making runs backwards as well as forwards. Too many tricks and flicks. Too much individual play.
- The loss of Gross and WBG meant we lost the art of keeping ball in midfield. Baleba is great but he drives forward. Ayari has stepped up but has the frustration of dipping in and out of games. JH got injured at the wrong time. Which leads me to..
- inconsistentency. Against Everton away we looked like a team who'd met in the car park for the first 20 minutes before we improved. Against Wolves, (cup game) we went to pieces for 20 minutes. The were the worst examples but there were few games where we didn't do this. We obviously shipped the 2 goal leads. Spurs wiped the floor with us for 45 minutes. I could go on.
Since then...
- Forget the result yesterday, the performance was excellent, the structure was excellent and there was very much a team ethic. The one touch stuff has returned. Running down the blind alleys has gone. Pedro looks like his old self again. For whatever reason we can play for 90 minutes again (Well, 120 if you prefer)
- The personnel. Webster and JPVH have been superb. I hate to say it but a lot of our defensive improvement has coincided with Dunks absence. Gomez has arrived at the right time. He can pick a pass. Solly did likewise yesterday. The type of passing range we were crying out for against Everton. Injuries have dried up and we've won games off the bench with the strength in depth.
- Tactical tweeks. Bournemouth had pace to burn but there was a plan to counter that even if it didn't always work. Lamptey was a 3rd CB out of possession and Minteh playing like a wing back. With the ball, it went back into a 4-2-3-1. That kind of flex was the norm under Potter and RDZ but I hadn't seen.much of that sort of play under FH. Think back to Chelsea away and it was just a suicidal high line. I'd made criticism that I wondered what the players did all week earlier in the season. It's a bit more visible now.
- Finally, body language. One of the most depressing things against Forest was the body language. The players were at each other from 1-0 onwards. The only time I'd seen a team like that was Man Utd away when they started pointing and shouting at each other and were visibly beaten. We've been unrecognisable since then. It's a cliche but the players looked like they "really wanted it" (copyright Sky sports) yesterday. FH is welcome to set fire to his tactics anytime he likes if this is the response.
We won't keep winning but for now at least we seem to have a lot more consistency and structure. Long may it continue.
- Players were holding onto the ball too long and trying but failing to win games on their own (Pedro worst culprit). @Stato did an excellent analysis on that. We were dribbling too much, not passing enough and I felt some players stopped making runs backwards as well as forwards. Too many tricks and flicks. Too much individual play.
- The loss of Gross and WBG meant we lost the art of keeping ball in midfield. Baleba is great but he drives forward. Ayari has stepped up but has the frustration of dipping in and out of games. JH got injured at the wrong time. Which leads me to..
- inconsistentency. Against Everton away we looked like a team who'd met in the car park for the first 20 minutes before we improved. Against Wolves, (cup game) we went to pieces for 20 minutes. The were the worst examples but there were few games where we didn't do this. We obviously shipped the 2 goal leads. Spurs wiped the floor with us for 45 minutes. I could go on.
Since then...
- Forget the result yesterday, the performance was excellent, the structure was excellent and there was very much a team ethic. The one touch stuff has returned. Running down the blind alleys has gone. Pedro looks like his old self again. For whatever reason we can play for 90 minutes again (Well, 120 if you prefer)
- The personnel. Webster and JPVH have been superb. I hate to say it but a lot of our defensive improvement has coincided with Dunks absence. Gomez has arrived at the right time. He can pick a pass. Solly did likewise yesterday. The type of passing range we were crying out for against Everton. Injuries have dried up and we've won games off the bench with the strength in depth.
- Tactical tweeks. Bournemouth had pace to burn but there was a plan to counter that even if it didn't always work. Lamptey was a 3rd CB out of possession and Minteh playing like a wing back. With the ball, it went back into a 4-2-3-1. That kind of flex was the norm under Potter and RDZ but I hadn't seen.much of that sort of play under FH. Think back to Chelsea away and it was just a suicidal high line. I'd made criticism that I wondered what the players did all week earlier in the season. It's a bit more visible now.
- Finally, body language. One of the most depressing things against Forest was the body language. The players were at each other from 1-0 onwards. The only time I'd seen a team like that was Man Utd away when they started pointing and shouting at each other and were visibly beaten. We've been unrecognisable since then. It's a cliche but the players looked like they "really wanted it" (copyright Sky sports) yesterday. FH is welcome to set fire to his tactics anytime he likes if this is the response.
We won't keep winning but for now at least we seem to have a lot more consistency and structure. Long may it continue.
singing4seagulls
Well-known member
- Apr 2, 2017
- 156
- Thread starter
- #37
That's interesting. I didn't clock the Webster taking goal kicks from the TV. Will pay attention for that next game 
Yeah there's such a clear target from Fab to run more, do more fast sprints and press harder than the opponents. You can see he really tracks that and judges the players on this. So much data.
I think that approach is only possible with the larger stronger squad we have now though. Players do have a limit.
Also interested how that style works with extra European games (hopefully), internationals etc. All the big teams were moaning about fixtures and lack of recovery time for players last season - adopting an approach where you do more work than other teams will have downsides...
I agree it was very smart against Newcastle though and no doubt their manager is annoyed. He's got a knackered squad who played 120mins very intense, got injuries and a red card... what bad luck
Yeah there's such a clear target from Fab to run more, do more fast sprints and press harder than the opponents. You can see he really tracks that and judges the players on this. So much data.
I think that approach is only possible with the larger stronger squad we have now though. Players do have a limit.
Also interested how that style works with extra European games (hopefully), internationals etc. All the big teams were moaning about fixtures and lack of recovery time for players last season - adopting an approach where you do more work than other teams will have downsides...
I agree it was very smart against Newcastle though and no doubt their manager is annoyed. He's got a knackered squad who played 120mins very intense, got injuries and a red card... what bad luck
MikeHimself
Active member
- Nov 17, 2024
- 53
I think all three of Dunk, JPVH and Webster have that in their locker/dressing room cabinet. JPVH was constantly splaying passes over the top of Man City’s mid block for Joao and Kaoru to run behind a flat and flat footed defence. JVPH and Webster also have licence to bring the ball forward themselves to a greater extent. I think the long ball from Bart is all about competing more physically for the first ball and the knockdown and we have the players who can do that effectively.
Jimmy Grimble
Well-known member
Howe commented that Livramento was exhausted. He was of course the man who played Welbeck onside.
My only concern is how long we can maintain this intense style for without dropping off. I posted similar on another thread but it is going to become increasingly tolling - both physically and mentally - for the players, particularly those who are ‘undroppable’ - Mitoma, Minteh, Rutter.
MikeHimself
Active member
- Nov 17, 2024
- 53
You can read Fab burning his plan on paper in a variety of ways. From his comments about going back to high intensity, running more, more sprints etc and Danny’s comments about getting ahead of themselves and JPVHs comments after the Chelsea match, I think the main part of those discussions was Fab doubling down on what he required from each individual by way of those basics.