[Politics] Donald Trump, US President

lasvegan said:

I’m not aware of the US sending disposable munitions to Ukraine, enlighten me.

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lasvegan said:

What repayments are US expecting from the aid it sends, apart from a share in their resources?

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lasvegan said:

What huge profit is Trump personally expecting?

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Zeberdi said:

There’s a lot of generalisation about Americans here. I have not lived in the States, just visited many times but most of my family are American or ex-pats living in both Canada and the full breadth of the United States from Texas to Michigan so I speak from first hand experience too.

Firstly over half (maybe more now) of Americans are absolutely dissatisfied by what Trump is doing, to world aid, to international frameworks, to decades of trusted relationships with allies, to medicare, to the environment to the ME crisis, to taxation/tarriffs.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trump-approval-rating-polls-inflation.html

Secondly, I have found many American people, open, warm and hospitable, including own family members. Yes, they can be inward looking but the size of the Country (Texas alone is 33 times as big as Wales!) and the State v federal system of government makes that understandable. Many Americans simply don’t travel far outside their own State because of the sheer expanse of the Country and the expense of travelling.

In the UK we also have massive differences in social demographics and income too. The US is not the only Country where ‘the rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer’ - we have people begging on the street, c.350,000 homeless, 21% of the population living in poverty (including 4.3m children) and over 3m people using food banks.

UK Poverty 2025: The essential guide to understanding poverty in the UK

This report sets out the nature of poverty in the UK in the run-up to 2024's General Election. It also sets out the scale of action necessary for the Government to deliver the change it has promised.

www.jrf.org.uk

I live adjacent to one of the poorest areas in East Anglia - the majority of those people have never lived or barely travelled outside the County - social deprivation = social immobility.

As for not being ‘generous’ - The majority of Americans donate to charity and those on the lowest incomes donate the largest % of their income - but the prevalence of givers increases with income level. Religious faith is a central influence on that charitable giving (whether it be Christian or Jewish) same as it is in the UK.

“Though it comes as a surprise to some observers, it is not Americans in the high-income, urban, liberal states like Massachusetts or California who are our most generous citizens. Rather it is residents of middle-American, conservative, moderate-income, religiously active regions who step up the most.”

Statistics on U.S. Generosity

In this section you’ll find charts and graphs laying out the most important numbers in American philanthropy. They document how much we give, how that has changed over time, what Read more...

www.philanthropyroundtable.org

Of course none of that suits the anti-American narrative at the moment where dismissing all/most Americans as selfish, ignorant rednecks rationalises how someone like Trump can become the ‘leader of the free world’.

But that ignores the system of governance, the gerrymandering of elections, voter suppression and foreign influence. It also underestimates the economic conditions that created a petri dish for a popularist leader to gain momentum.

Imo - What is happening in the States is a macro-reflection of the same elements that undermine democracy and pave the way for the far right to rise in Europe.

I am not suggesting that any criticisms that have been made on this thread are wrong in themselves, just that they are over-generalisations and selectively negative of the whole population and Americans as a people. It assumes a mono-culture and homogeneity of world view in the States that simply does not exist in the population.

Let‘s not be so busy slaying dragons on the other side of the Atlantic at the risk of ignoring those on our own doorstep.

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BadFish said:

A slightly off topic question and maybe I'd a stupid one but anyway.

it appears that all countries are in debt by a lot. so if all countries are in debt, who do they owe the money to?

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BadFish said:

A slightly off topic question and maybe I'd a stupid one but anyway.

it appears that all countries are in debt by a lot. so if all countries are in debt, who do they owe the money to?

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Triggaaar said:

Ammunition has a shelf life as it degrades so it's all disposable, and old equipment gets replaced by better modern versions, so when the US sends older equipment to Ukraine, the US upgrades their own stock, which they do anyway.




Firstly, some loans given to Ukraine are to be repaid. eg https://shorturl.at/YkTox

Secondly, what do you mean, apart from? A share in resources is payment for aid.




Trump hasn't divulged what he's personally going to gain (why would he) but the US have give $106 billion in aid to Ukraine so far, and Trump has asked for resources worth about $7.5 trillion in return. Why should the US profit from helping a democratic country that's under attack? The UK and EU don't expect to get their donations back, let alone make a profit on them.

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Britain pays off final instalment of US loan - after 61 years

Britain will today make the final payment on a multi-billion-dollar loan it took out in 1945 to refinance the country in the wake of the Second World War.

www.independent.co.uk

BadFish said:

A slightly off topic question and maybe I'd a stupid one but anyway.

it appears that all countries are in debt by a lot. so if all countries are in debt, who do they owe the money to?

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Triggaaar said:

Genius Man seeking dominance in AI field says computers are overwhelmed by challenge of recording votes -

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Triggaaar said:

Genius Man seeking dominance in AI field says computers are overwhelmed by challenge of recording votes -

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A1X said:

I wonder why Elon Musk is so well acquainted with the US voting systems…

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Triggaaar said:

"Genius Man seeking dominance in AI field says computers are overwhelmed by challenge of recording votes -"

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Zeberdi said:

There’s a lot of generalisation about Americans here. I have not lived in the States, just visited many times but most of my family are American or ex-pats living in both Canada and the full breadth of the United States from Texas to Michigan so I speak from first hand experience too.

Firstly over half (maybe more now) of Americans are absolutely dissatisfied by what Trump is doing, to world aid, to international frameworks, to decades of trusted relationships with allies, to medicare, to the environment to the ME crisis, to taxation/tarriffs.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trump-approval-rating-polls-inflation.html

Secondly, I have found many American people, open, warm and hospitable, including own family members. Yes, they can be inward looking but the size of the Country (Texas alone is 33 times as big as Wales!) and the State v federal system of government makes that understandable. Many Americans simply don’t travel far outside their own State because of the sheer expanse of the Country and the expense of travelling.

In the UK we also have massive differences in social demographics and income too. The US is not the only Country where ‘the rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer’ - we have people begging on the street, c.350,000 homeless, 21% of the population living in poverty (including 4.3m children) and over 3m people using food banks.

UK Poverty 2025: The essential guide to understanding poverty in the UK

This report sets out the nature of poverty in the UK in the run-up to 2024's General Election. It also sets out the scale of action necessary for the Government to deliver the change it has promised.

www.jrf.org.uk

I live adjacent to one of the poorest areas in East Anglia - the majority of those people have never lived or barely travelled outside the County - social deprivation = social immobility.

As for not being ‘generous’ - The majority of Americans donate to charity and those on the lowest incomes donate the largest % of their income - but the prevalence of givers increases with income level. Religious faith is a central influence on that charitable giving (whether it be Christian or Jewish) same as it is in the UK.

“Though it comes as a surprise to some observers, it is not Americans in the high-income, urban, liberal states like Massachusetts or California who are our most generous citizens. Rather it is residents of middle-American, conservative, moderate-income, religiously active regions who step up the most.”

Statistics on U.S. Generosity

In this section you’ll find charts and graphs laying out the most important numbers in American philanthropy. They document how much we give, how that has changed over time, what Read more...

www.philanthropyroundtable.org

Of course none of that suits the anti-American narrative at the moment where dismissing all/most Americans as selfish, ignorant rednecks rationalises how someone like Trump can become the ‘leader of the free world’.

But that ignores the system of governance, the gerrymandering of elections, voter suppression and foreign influence. It also underestimates the economic conditions that created a petri dish for a popularist leader to gain momentum.

Imo - What is happening in the States is a macro-reflection of the same elements that undermine democracy and pave the way for the far right to rise in Europe.

I am not suggesting that any criticisms that have been made on this thread are wrong in themselves, just that they are over-generalisations and selectively negative of the whole population and Americans as a people. It assumes a mono-culture and homogeneity of world view in the States that simply does not exist in the population.

Let‘s not be so busy slaying dragons on the other side of the Atlantic at the risk of ignoring those on our own doorstep.

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Eeyore said:

Yes to all of this.

It's the reason why I found myself apologising to some US folks on here for the insults being thrown around. It's rather ugly and not the best of NSC.

Play the ball, take out the man if needed, but you don't have to attack the crowd.

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Greg Bobkin said:

It's easy to distinguish between America - as in the residents of the country - and the group of insufferable bellends that claim to run the country, no? It's no different to over here where people argue against the political 'side' they don't support.

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Zeberdi said:

There’s a lot of generalisation about Americans here. I have not lived in the States, just visited many times but most of my family are American or ex-pats living in both Canada and the full breadth of the United States from Texas to Michigan so I speak from first hand experience too.

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tedebear said:

Yes there are generalisations. But I think the majority of the discussion is around the incredulity of those Americans supporting Trump and his administration. There are absolutely good people in the US. This thread whilst it has twists and turns is about Donald Trump and his followers and for some of us trying to explain and understand the inexplicable in supporting him.

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Eeyore said:

Yes to all of this.

It's the reason why I found myself apologising to some US folks on here for the insults being thrown around. It's rather ugly and not the best of NSC.

Play the ball, take out the man if needed, but you don't have to attack the crowd.

Click to expand...

BN41Albion said:

But if a very significant percentage of americans didn't vote for him, despite his dispicable character and utterly vile nature, then we wouldn't be in this horrendous mess now? It's not like he staged a coup. I absolutely agree that there are millions of very decent Americans as I've already said, but it is also true to say that there are millions of americans who are, for example, vehemently against any kind of gun control despite weekly mass murders, or who call anyone who has any kind of socialist value commie scum, etc. I've been there enough times to have seen both sides of the country, which really is unlike anywhere else in some pretty shocking ways

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BN41Albion said:

But if a very significant percentage of americans didn't vote for him, despite his dispicable character and utterly vile nature, then we wouldn't be in this horrendous mess now? It's not like he staged a coup. I absolutely agree that there are millions of very decent Americans as I've already said, but it is also true to say that there are millions of americans who are, for example, vehemently against any kind of gun control despite weekly mass murders, or who call anyone who has any kind of socialist value commie scum, etc. I've been there enough times to have seen both sides of the country, which really is unlike anywhere else in some pretty shocking ways

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