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[Politics] Donald Trump, US President

Who will win the 2024 Presidential Election?

  • President Joe Biden - Democrat

    Votes: 3 0.7%

  • Donald Trump - Republican

    Votes: 175 42.3%

  • Vice President, Kamala Harris - Democrat

    Votes: 216 52.2%

  • Other Democratic candidate tbc

    Votes: 20 4.8%
  • Total voters
    414
  • Poll closed .








Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
24,404
Brighton
lasvegan said:
With all due respect, this an egregious lie. Americans are the most generous people on the planet and will help anyone in their times of need.
Click to expand...
No.

This is an egregious lie.

Having consumed American media, TV and film most of my life, I ventured to the states for some travelling in my 20’s. I was absolutely shocked by the poverty I saw. You never see it on TV! The streets were full of homeless people, they were everywhere. My mind was blown, why do they have so much poverty in that country when they are meant to be the richest? So many Americans turn a blind eye and then seek forgiveness from a non existent god each week.

This is not a compassionate country. It’s fundamentally built on the freedom to create money and exploit others and prioritises an individual’s right to do what they want (such as own a Tiger and a gun) to the detriment of community. America is all about worship of the dollar, it has a much higher percentage of people who only care about money and themselves than anywhere else in the world because a lot of them have left ‘anywhere else in the world’ to go to the states for the dollar and vote for Trump.
 




B

BN41Albion

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2017
7,051
Hugo Rune said:
No.

This is an egregious lie.

Having consumed American media, TV and film most of my life, I ventured to the states for some travelling in my 20’s. I was absolutely shocked by the poverty I saw. You never see it on TV! The streets were full of homeless people, they were everywhere. My mind was blown, why do they have so much poverty in that country when they are meant to be the richest? So many Americans turn a blind eye and then seek forgiveness from a non existent god each week.

This is not a compassionate country. It’s fundamentally built on the freedom to create money and exploit others and prioritises an individual’s right to do what they want (such as own a Tiger and a gun) to the detriment of community. America is all about worship of the dollar, it has a much higher percentage of people who only care about money and themselves than anywhere else in the world because a lot of them have left ‘anywhere else in the world’ to go to the states for the dollar and vote for Trump.
Click to expand...

My experience too. I've met many great Americans (who will no doubt be absolutely aghast at what's going on now) but the poverty and homelessness is absolutely shocking, and the very significant percentage of the population resolutely against any kind of socialism tells you all you need to know about the self-obsessed and self-titled land of the free
 








darkwolf666

darkwolf666

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2015
7,912
Sittingbourne, Kent
lasvegan said:
With all due respect, this an egregious lie. Americans are the most generous people on the planet and will help anyone in their times of need. The problem is that their money is being frittered away, to the point of bankruptcy, to the tune of 37 trillion dollars. A bankrupt America is no good for anyone and it’s time to put the brakes on. I don’t understand how anyone doesn’t comprehend this.
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America and Americans are often too insular, to inward looking, having the feeling that the world ends at their borders. This was brought into stark relief, for me, during the Live Aid broadcasts of 1985. Concerts that were brought about by a movement started in the UK, fuelled by a Michael Buerk news report from Ethiopia and the famine engulfing the region.

Here in the UK, We were shown footage of starving children, with no food, women who couldn't breast feed their babies as they didn't have enough nutrients to produce milk for their babies, we saw little bodies, wrapped up awaiting burial. We saw children, too weak to brush aside the flies that swarmed around their eyes and mouths.

Yet, while this human tragedy was playing out in Africa, Bob Dylan saw his Live Aid performance as the opportunity to plead for American farmers, saying "I hope that some of the money that's raised for the people in Africa, maybe they can just take a little bit of it, maybe one or two million, maybe, and use it, say, to pay the mortgages on some of the farms that the farmers here owe to the banks."

I know this was 40 years ago, but I don't see any evidence, particularly from the current administration, that their views have changed at all...
 




B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
15,621
Cumbria
Greg Bobkin said:
Eh? That's what I said!
Click to expand...
Oh yes, sorry - I think I mixed it up with a different post!
lasvegan said:
With all due respect, this an egregious lie. Americans are the most generous people on the planet and will help anyone in their times of need. The problem is that their money is being frittered away, to the point of bankruptcy, to the tune of 37 trillion dollars. A bankrupt America is no good for anyone and it’s time to put the brakes on. I don’t understand how anyone doesn’t comprehend this.
Click to expand...
37 trillion dollars to Ukraine?? Not heard that before.
 


B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
15,621
Cumbria
Bold Seagull said:
Now purging the military of any senior leadership that maybe against them.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/21/trump-hegseth-joint-chiefs-cq-brown-jr
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Worse than that. It would appear to me that he is being sacked because he is black. Reading that article it seems as though their issue with CQ Brown Jr is that they consider he was only given the job because of DEI. So, they are saying he was only given the job because he was black - so firing him because of the same thing is basically racist surely?
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
63,891
The Fatherland
lasvegan said:
Click to expand...
I see @Bozza beat me to it. But I wouldn’t view generosity based on absolute total amount. If there was a whip round in a pub, and a table of ten gave a tenner and a table of 3 gave a tenner I wouldn’t say they’re equally generous. Likewise I wouldn’t say the US is more generous.
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
30,746
Hove
Herr Tubthumper said:
I see @Bozza beat me to it. But I wouldn’t view generosity based on absolute total amount. If there was a whip round in a pub, and a table of ten gave a tenner and a table of 3 gave a tenner I wouldn’t say they’re equally generous. Likewise I wouldn’t say the US is more generous.
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You would not have thought this needed explaining - but this is where we are with Trumpism.
 


tedebear

tedebear

Legal Alien
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
17,293
In my computer
darkwolf666 said:
America and Americans are often too insular, to inward looking, having the feeling that the world ends at their borders. This was brought into stark relief, for me, during the Live Aid broadcasts of 1985. Concerts that were brought about by a movement started in the UK, fuelled by a Michael Buerk news report from Ethiopia and the famine engulfing the region.

Here in the UK, We were shown footage of starving children, with no food, women who couldn't breast feed their babies as they didn't have enough nutrients to produce milk for their babies, we saw little bodies, wrapped up awaiting burial. We saw children, too weak to brush aside the flies that swarmed around their eyes and mouths.

Yet, while this human tragedy was playing out in Africa, Bob Dylan saw his Live Aid performance as the opportunity to plead for American farmers, saying "I hope that some of the money that's raised for the people in Africa, maybe they can just take a little bit of it, maybe one or two million, maybe, and use it, say, to pay the mortgages on some of the farms that the farmers here owe to the banks."

I know this was 40 years ago, but I don't see any evidence, particularly from the current administration, that their views have changed at all...
Click to expand...

Agreed, having lived in the US for a while, I was startled by several themes, one being how insular they are and their insistence they live in the greatest country on the earth despite not visiting or knowing anything about any other country in detail. I had to purposely seek out international news sites to keep up to date on world events. I lived alongside people who hadn't even travelled out of their own state. Who also didn't know their world geography and didn't remember learning any history at school. Yes there are well travelled Americans, but on the whole they are a minority. I travelled through parts of the mid north west that look like Russia and decimated Ukraine to be honest!

The other more startling theme is the apparent evidence of the Dunning Kruger effect. A good majority of Americans are poorly educated, but seem to have absolute certaintly they know the asnwer to everything. This is particularly relevant to MAGA/Trump/Putin conversations...There are papers on the Dunning Kruger affect on policitical sophistocation, which are as scary as they are fascinating.

Finally their love of God is scary. An inability to see that they level insult at non Christian religions yet fail to recognise they use their own God in the same way...
 


M

maffew

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2003
9,204
Worcester England
Bodian said:
Worse than that. It would appear to me that he is being sacked because he is black. Reading that article it seems as though their issue with CQ Brown Jr is that they consider he was only given the job because of DEI. So, they are saying he was only given the job because he was black - so firing him because of the same thing is basically racist surely?
Click to expand...
And head of naval sacked (possibly) for being female/part of DEi initiative/employed under Biden administration

defensescoop.com

Trump fires Franchetti as chief of naval operations

President Donald Trump is looking for a nominee to replace Adm. Lisa Franchetti as the Navy's top officer, the Pentagon announced Friday night.
defensescoop.com defensescoop.com
 






SouthSaxon

SouthSaxon

Stand or fall
NSC Patron
Jan 25, 2025
101
lasvegan said:
With all due respect, this an egregious lie. Americans are the most generous people on the planet and will help anyone in their times of need. The problem is that their money is being frittered away, to the point of bankruptcy, to the tune of 37 trillion dollars. A bankrupt America is no good for anyone and it’s time to put the brakes on. I don’t understand how anyone doesn’t comprehend this.
Click to expand...

Bodian said:
37 trillion dollars to Ukraine?? Not heard that before.
Click to expand...
$37 trillion is the US national debt.

That is quite a lot of money, but it doesn’t mean the US is on the brink of bankruptcy. As long as it can service the interest on that debt, it’s fine.

Musk says otherwise, of course, but that’s just another part of his shock doctrine to convince people that his ransacking is an act of benevolence.

I prefer to trust what actual economists say, not the words of a cultic lunatic.
 


G

Greg Bobkin

Silver Seagull
May 22, 2012
16,935
lasvegan said:
With all due respect, this an egregious lie. Americans are the most generous people on the planet and will help anyone in their times of need. The problem is that their money is being frittered away, to the point of bankruptcy, to the tune of 37 trillion dollars. A bankrupt America is no good for anyone and it’s time to put the brakes on. I don’t understand how anyone doesn’t comprehend this.
Click to expand...
I'm not surprised there's that much debt, with mega corps doing everything in their power not to pay taxes that could help those struggling. Not to mention the people at the top of them (and now involved with Trump's) getting richer and richer and richer.

It's a MUCH better idea to go after the little guys :facepalm:
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
7,955
There’s a lot of generalisation about Americans here. I have not lived in the States, just visited many times but most of my family are American or ex-pats living in both Canada and the full breadth of the United States from Texas to Michigan so I speak from first hand experience too.

Firstly over half (maybe more now) of Americans are absolutely dissatisfied by what Trump is doing, to world aid, to international frameworks, to decades of trusted relationships with allies, to medicare, to the environment to the ME crisis, to taxation/tarriffs.


Secondly, I have found many American people, open, warm and hospitable, including own family members. Yes, they can be inward looking but the size of the Country (Texas alone is 33 times as big as Wales!) and the State v federal system of government makes that understandable. Many Americans simply don’t travel far outside their own State because of the sheer expanse of the Country and the expense of travelling.

In the UK we also have massive differences in social demographics and income too. The US is not the only Country where ‘the rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer’ - we have people begging on the street, c.350,000 homeless, 21% of the population living in poverty (including 4.3m children) and over 3m people using food banks.

www.jrf.org.uk

UK Poverty 2025: The essential guide to understanding poverty in the UK

This report sets out the nature of poverty in the UK in the run-up to 2024's General Election. It also sets out the scale of action necessary for the Government to deliver the change it has promised.
www.jrf.org.uk www.jrf.org.uk

I live adjacent to one of the poorest areas in East Anglia - the majority of those people have never lived or barely travelled outside the County - social deprivation = social immobility.

As for not being ‘generous’ - The majority of Americans donate to charity and those on the lowest incomes donate the largest % of their income - but the prevalence of givers increases with income level. Religious faith is a central influence on that charitable giving (whether it be Christian or Jewish) same as it is in the UK.

“Though it comes as a surprise to some observers, it is not Americans in the high-income, urban, liberal states like Massachusetts or California who are our most generous citizens. Rather it is residents of middle-American, conservative, moderate-income, religiously active regions who step up the most.”

www.philanthropyroundtable.org

Statistics on U.S. Generosity

In this section you’ll find charts and graphs laying out the most important numbers in American philanthropy. They document how much we give, how that has changed over time, what Read more...
www.philanthropyroundtable.org www.philanthropyroundtable.org

Of course none of that suits the anti-American narrative at the moment where dismissing all/most Americans as selfish, ignorant rednecks rationalises how someone like Trump can become the ‘leader of the free world’.

But that ignores the system of governance, the gerrymandering of elections, voter suppression and foreign influence. It also underestimates the economic conditions that created a petri dish for a popularist leader to gain momentum.

Imo - What is happening in the States is a macro-reflection of the same elements that undermine democracy and pave the way for the far right to rise in Europe.

I am not suggesting that any criticisms that have been made on this thread are wrong in themselves, just that they are over-generalisations and selectively negative of the whole population and Americans as a people. It assumes a mono-culture and homogeneity of world view in the States that simply does not exist in the population.

Let‘s not be so busy slaying dragons on the other side of the Atlantic at the risk of ignoring those on our own doorstep.
 




BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
19,101
SouthSaxon said:
$37 trillion is the US national debt.

That is quite a lot of money, but it doesn’t mean the US is on the brink of bankruptcy. As long as it can service the interest on that debt, it’s fine.

Musk says otherwise, of course, but that’s just another part of his shock doctrine to convince people that his ransacking is an act of benevolence.

I prefer to trust what actual economists say, not the words of a cultic lunatic.
Click to expand...
A slightly off topic question and maybe I'd a stupid one but anyway.

it appears that all countries are in debt by a lot. so if all countries are in debt, who do they owe the money to?
 




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